this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
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I don't need to log into my computer monitor, why should I log into my VR goggles?
Don't give them thanks for only half vacuuming your personal privacy, keep bitching until they do it right.
I mean, in this case because it's a standalone device, so... for the same reason you log in to your PlayStation. Also, you already had to log in to it when this was a Oculus thing, the "I don't want a Facebook login" complaint only became a talking point after they transitioned from the Oculus login over to the Facebook login, so the intellectual honesty in moving the goalposts based on this argument seems dubious.
In any case, I could see you getting uppity about logging in to use it wired. Maybe. There are a ton of hardware settings and configuration that are handled within the Quest's software directly, so I bet that would be way less trivial to deploy than people imagine. There is certainly no way I can envision where this thing would be usable wirelessly without a software login. You need to run an app to link to your PC, be it the Oculus or the Steam Link app. For security reasons alone you don't want a logless device that streams what's on your desktop monitor at will.
EDIT: Also, for the record, there are a bunch of monitor manufacturers that do ask for a login. Hi, ASUS Armoury Crate, you suck and have always sucked.
You didn't have to log into PlayStations back in the day btw.. It just worked. Idk how it is now. (I switched to playing free games on PC and use my gaming budget to gamble on the stock market instead.)
My point is: Login doesn't need to be a requirement for standalone devices.
Hold on, the last time you didn't have to log in to use a PS console was... what, 2005? And you are seriously claiming in public with a straight face that you don't use any gaming services that need a log in on PC? So... you use none of them? Not Steam, not Gog, not Epic, not Xbox, not EA Play or whatever Origin is called... none of those.
Well, I mean, bully for you, but I'm gonna guess that Meta is after a different demographic than... you know, people who don't buy videogames on their videogame systems. Login absolutely has been a requirement for standalone gaming devices for the past twenty years, with no meaningful exceptions.
Specifically, though, what VR device do you use with no login? Because last I checked, all the places that deliver VR software have their own. The Oculus app does. Steam does. PSVR does. Apple sure does.
So... what type of mythical beast are you to be using this rawdog VR device with no login involved? Are you just beaming I Love Lucy to an HMD using the power of imagination?
Wow, the old "the others are doing it too!!" defence.
So lame.
You're just a corporate bootlicker lol 😆, did you buy their VR set or what?
Yes, the old "standard practices for the past 20 years should probably not be the reason you stay away from one product over another if both products are doing the same thing".
The bootlicking is off the charts.
For the record, I did buy one of their headsets. I also bought one of Valve's and one of Sony's. Turns out this VR thing has been going on for a while and I find it quite interesting.
I did make a login with all three of those companies.
Oh, SW RotS on PS2 with friends at summer, and SW BFII, and Gran Turismo
When PS meant something.
EDIT: 2007-2008 rather, but still
Hey, I miss being young, too, but if I'm going to argue for the good old days of actually having friends over to play games I'm not gonna do it over the budget VR headset. People didn't get mad when Xbox Live happened and now this is the world we have.
I will just say that I don't think Steam et al. are equivalent to logging onto your device. The account I use on my computer is... just that, a local account for my computer. So, if the Quest requires some sort of authentication, why can't it be local too?
I have the same argument with consoles as well, but at least with the Xbox One, login still isn't required unless you're playing digital games. You can play all the disc games you like without any account.
This is not right. The Steam login is very much an online login, you can't create an account offline or a local-only account. Your login status is used for DRM and rich presence, among other things. Steam does allow a temporary offline mode for travel and so on, but it's not just a local account. This applies to the Steam Deck as well.
I'm pretty sure you do need an account on Xbox to play at all, including physical media. I don't think a local account will do, but I could be wrong on that one, there's been some argument about how to use consoles in Antarctica and whatnot, so the details are fuzzy.
Also, pretty sure the current Oculus account system works the exact same way. You can definitely play offline as well. You made me go check because at this point it's borderline gaslighting and yeah, you can absolutely turn off the Quest's Wi-fi and play offline.
The reason you kinda remember it working differently than the Xbox and all the others is probably the half-remembered outrage from the one year when it did work differently that everybody forgot to get over because Meta is Meta and dunking on Meta is never not fun.
Which is fair enough, but for Carmack's sake, if you do want an affordable HMD you can use both standalone and with your PC don't hesitate just because of a half-remembered grudge, it's okay to at least research it and give it a fair shake.
No no, I was saying the account for my computer is local only. Steam, being a separate application, makes sense to have a separate login.
And I don't remember anything differently... I don't really have a horse in this race, just playing devil's advocate.
Fair enough, substitute "the general consensus" there. I don't mean you as an individual specifically. You all. English really needs an official plural for the second person pronoun.
Your computer having a local account is fair enough, although MS is trying to kill that too and I genuinely am not sure if it's mandatory on Macs. In any case, the comparison here is with gaming consoles or, yeah, with Steam itself, in that the Quest isn't a display device, it is a full-on integrated platform. There's a store in there, it's digital only, so you can't really do much with it without a login, just like you can't do much with a PSVR or an Index without a login.
Again, people are displacing the old rage about there being a unified Facebook login tied to your real name, which was fair, with there being a login at all, which was never the point. Oculus required a login before Facebook stepped in and there is currently a separate login for Quest devices.
FYI, you can use a PSVR headset (at least the OG one) on a PC using third party software and not only do you not even need to log in to a Playstation account, you don't even need a Playstation.
That is pretty cool. Thx for the info.
If I ever encounter a monitor begging me to log in, that is going directly back where it came from the very same day.
Cool. Look after the ones you have now, then.
I read some of your other comments. Your mouse wants you to log in? I think part of the problem is you.
But I am worried about, for example, finding a TV that isn't a piece of shit. It does seem to be creeping in more and more product categories.
I wish people would quit buying that shit. Collective refusal to log in to our monitors would eventually end the begging. Too bad some people are desperate for RGB lighting I guess.
The problem is indeed me in that I use an ergonomic Logitech mouse because RSI is a bitch.
And that mouse absolutely demands that you use Logitech's annoying peripheral controller software, which also insists on updating with game button profiles every time you reboot your PC. Welcome to the future.
Hey, I agree that it's bad and annoying and quite ridiculous for a mouse or just to use RGB lights. I really hope that MS's centralized RGB management will replace most of it. My current keyboard already supports it and it's great to have it right in the OS settings instead of being bloatware.
But my point isn't that endless superfluous apps are a good thing, it's that being big mad about a software and gaming platform requesting you to log in to it is at best anachronistic and at worst not a thing you want, given you are using your credit card and streaming your desktop through it.
It sucks that Logitech is one of the few competitors in that space, yeah. I've got a vertical mouse. I'm not going to install their garbage software, and luckily it behaves itself normally out of the box. I honestly should have returned it though.
I have a Steam account, sure, having a login to associate purchases with makes sense. A peripheral, though, absolutely not. I'm viewing the VR headsets in more of the monitor category. It shouldn't be connected to the wifi on its own to be able to forward the desktop. It should be like a GPU, drivers in the kernel and a software layer that exposes a more uniform API for developers.
It's exhausting. I just bought a monitor and there were all sorts of "smart" monitors I had to filter out. Even then I had to look all inputs to make sure it had a regular C14 power connector so I don't have dumb power brick garbage all over.
?
FWIW, I use a Logitech G502 Hero mouse and a G512 Carbon keyboard and I do indeed use their "G Hub" applet to reconfigure the buttons and RGB shit, and all. I have never, not once, ever created or signed into an account to use it and this has not precluded me from using any feature I've ever wanted to. I have no idea why Logitech even offers the option to create an account to use for their app other than probably some idiot with an MBA at Logitech read about it and got the idea from his 2014 copy of "Techbro for dummies."
Yeah, but that's my point. People rage at Meta for requiring a Facebook login out of pure reflex. The Quest isn't a peripheral, it's a standalone computing device. It boots into an OS when you turn it on, using it with a PC is an added feature.
Nobody complained about this specifically when Apple did it with the Vision. Nobody complains about needing to log in to use the PSVR headset on a PlayStation.
If you are more than superficially interested in this space you may remember that the reason why there's all this residual rage is that when Oculus got acquired they already had a login system and there was a lot of back and forth and backtracking from Meta, first saying the Oculus login would still in place and then enraging people by putting the Quest under their unified "login with Facebook" login manager.
That was legitimate. They were doing things they said they wouldn't do, it was impractical to sync to an account bearing your real name as a demand of the EULA, and this wasn't the first time Oculus had reneged on promises.
At this point, though, a couple of hardware generations down the line, years after they reversed that policy and with a well established ecosystem that works pretty much exactly the same way an Xbox does? This is purely reflexive "Meta bad" stuff that is disconnected to whether the login requirement makes sense, is convenient, does anything untoward or any other practical consideration.
I'm just sitting here with my WMR headset which works perfectly well for all my games and software without needing an account from anybody. The only bugbear is that it's tied to Windows (for now), but what else is new?
Yeeeeah, how much did that cost?
Cause I know this is a huge mess of a thread, but the point was whether the Quest is a good entry level headset. Last I checked the Quest 2 starts at 250 bucks. Is there a WMR device for under twice that?
Also, do you have a Steam account or are those games and software being delivered by mail?
I don't think the Quest is the only option that makes sense, but it's certainly the entry point no-brainer, even if that's relying on Meta spending a ton of money to keep people within their ecosystem.
About $400, and remember that at the time I bought it the Quest 3 wasn't even announced yet. The Quest 2 was the new hotness from Facebook and the Reverb G2's resolution is superior which was also an important attribute for me. 1,832 × 1,920 per eye vs. 2160 x 2160. And at that time the cheapest Quest 2 was not $250, it was $299.
A Steam account is irrelevant. You're building straw men to ignore the fact that a WMR headset itself physically works without any account requirement whatsoever tied to the hardware. But if you insist that ever having to type in a password for anyone is some kind of "gotcha," which it isn't, my Reverb G2 absolutely does work with every game that natively supports VR in Windows that I've tried which includes Elite: Dangerous, No Man's Sky, MS Flight Sim, Asetto Corsa, Project Cars/2, etc. All of these games can be had outside of the Steam environment. Yes, it even works with pirated games. You don't even need a Microsoft account to download and play free (not paid) VR games and "experiences" from the Windows store! If you absolutely insist, you can even play Oculus titles on it using ReVive.
There is no technological reason any of Meta/Facebook's hardware products need to force you to sign in with a Facebook account just to work. A lot of people, myself included, will never buy a Meta VR product no matter how shiny or cheap they make it because of that reason, and where it comes from.
Show me these monitors you speak of that force you to log in before they work.
I did not downvote you and I genuinely just saw your post now, chill your bits. Some of us have a job or a life beyond refreshing social media constantly (and I'm already pretty bad on that front).
So to your question, I didn't say "force you to log in before they work", I said "ask for a login". Which my ASUS display in fact does to deliver updates and control lighting. In fairness, their dumb app also covers the keyboard, mouse and motherboard RGB, but account login it has. So does my Logitech mouse, by the way. My other Alienware monitor is interesting, because it doesn't have a login, but itdoes ask to collect your data, including it scrubbing your games library and constantly monitoring your controller with no opt-out for some reason. I think I would have preferred a login. Still better than Armoury Crate, though.
And of course that assumes we're only talking about PC monitors. Every single one of my TVs requests a login as part of the first time setup process, whether you use them stand-alone or as a PC output. The trophy to most annoying spyware on that front has to go to LG, whose WebOS device allows me to log out after creating an account if I want, but then it will stop updating some of my apps, so each time Max decides to change its name or Disney wants to change the background on its Disney Plus app I have to manually log in, update, then log out again. Fun!
So you brought up an optional piece of software with an email log in and treated it the same as enforcing a log in. Cool.
Asus having software you can optionally use to control your display is very different to enforcing a Meta/Facebook account to use a display.
That is not the same and the comparison is ridiculous.
No, I made a passing comment about how the comparison the OP made isn't particularly effective and, in the social media 200m obstacles you have decided to create a tangent nitpicking that caveat to death because you think it scores points instead of being an obnoxious stalemate.
So no, it's not "the same", what it is is relevant to note that pretty much every piece of hardware you buy does at least request that you log in to a service and, of course, the part you're actively ignoring, which is that all dedicated hardware and software platforms in the market, VR or not, do require a mandatory login.
So can we get back to the point or do you want to keep litigating your deliberate misrepresentation indefinitely? I see you have plenty of time, given you got so antsy about waiting 30 minutes for a response.
No.
In reply to someone complaining that a head mounted display forces you to have a Facebook/Meta login in order to use it at all, you brought up that "a bunch" of monitors also "ask" that you do the same.
But:
asking is not the same as forcing.
monitors don't do that anyway, your argument is a lie.
I have never seen a monitor's OSD popping up and pestering you to sign in.
That is not true either.
Yes.
That's why I didn't just say that monitors also ask for your login and that was just a minor postcript throwaway at the end of the post.
But by all means, please do provide a counterexample of a standalone software or hardware platform that doesn't request a login. I am waiting with bated breath. Can't wait for somebody trying to actually define this grudge beyond amorphous rage to see the scope of what's being requested.
So yeah, please, do go on.
No.
Yes you did. Scroll up.
I'm sorry, does your lie being at the end of a post rather than at the start somehow mean it doesn't count?
Stop moving the goalposts. You said they force you. Now you're saying request.
Don't you remember saying that they force you? Here's your quote:
And for that I could name a bunch of examples. You don't have to make a Google account to use an Android phone. You don't have to make a Nintendo account to play on a Switch. You don't need an account to play play Blu-rays on a Blu-ray player. My smart TV doesn't need a Google account or a Sony account. You don't need an account to watch YouTube. Etc. Those are all hardware, software, or both ecosystems.
How aren't you understanding that asking (or in the case of monitors, not even asking - to be very clear, you lied about that) for a login and requiring it aren't the same?
Nobody has an issue with Facebook/Microsoft/Google asking you to sign in. But they absolutely have a problem with it being enforced. Particularly when it's for something as basic as displaying an HDMI signal.
Well, we do know that you want to litigate the misrepresentation indefinitely.
So you're lying about what I said. Which always weirds me out because... well it's still there, you can look at it. Here's what I said:
You will notice the word "have" is not in fact in that piece of text (well, except for "you have always sucked"). The word "ask" is in that piece of text. If you have questions about the meaning of those words please feel free to look them up.
Now, about your other absurd lie.
You HAVE to make a Google account to use the Google Play store, which is the platform (Android is just the OS). You HAVE to make a Nintendo account to use the eShop, although I do give you partial credit on that one, if you stick to physical media only you can still play some games on it.
Meanwhile, you DO need an account to use, in no particular order: Steam VR, PSVR, Playstation in general, Xbox in general, Apple Vision Pro, an iPhone, GOG, EA Play, and since you're willing to include services beyond gaming and software, also Kindle, Amazon Prime Video, HBO Max, Netflix, Disney Plus, Paramount Plus, the LG, Samsung and Sony free streaming services, Plex, Spotify, Tidal and so, so many more.
Oh, and Lemmy.
So if Microsoft MAKES you log in to use an Xbox and Sony MAKES you log in to use a PlayStation and Steam MAKES you log in to use... well, Steam and Steam VR, then why are you singling out Meta?
That's rethorical, by the way, it's because this was a legitimate issue back in 2020 when they briefly enforced a Facebook log in for both new and existing users and people were legitimately mad for a bit, and then they changed policy after all the backlash but people didn't want to stop being mad at them for other reasons so here we are. Having to endure the absurd dance of somebody pretending that a company with a closed platform containing a store and a digital distribution service would require a login to operate just like everybody else.
I'm just calling out a lie. I like to do that. I'm sorry that offends you.
Nope.
And they don't. No monitor asks you to sign in before (or after) using it.
I haven't lied once, that's all on you.
Yes? Who said otherwise? The play store isn't required for you to use your phone.
Please don't take offence at this, but are you mentally deficient? Of course Android is a platform.
Again, you don't need the eShop to use a switch.
I also see you ignoring that I mentioned YouTube. Is that not a platform in your confused mind?
Wrong.
Because:
This submission is about Meta. Of course I'm talking about Meta.
It's a fucking display and gyrometer. It has zero reason to enforce using an account, unlike a storefront such as steam, which can't really work without accounts.
I don't care. I've addressed your nonsense regardless.
Was and still is.
Still are, and for good reason.
Nope. For the same reason. They enforce a Facebook/Meta login.
No.
Please STOP with these brazen lies.
NOBODY, and I do literally mean nobody, ever, anywhere, in any capacity, has an issue with Facebook requiring an account to use their storefront.
People do have an issue with Facebook requiring a log in to use a bloody HDMI port.
You know this, because you've already been told, you are just purposely being contrarian because you get off on it or something, I don't know.
Eh... you don't seem to know how any of this works.
A Quest isn't a HMD, it's a self-contained system. It has its own OS (and Android variant, I believe), it has its own built-in store, it runs its own software right on the SoC built into the device. It very much isn't "displays and gyrometers". You can't even use it as a HMD for a separate computer without booting the OS first and running software on both ends. It operates like a Steam Link (which also requires logging in, by the way).
So... I'm sorry if this frustrates your vitriol, but you are factually wrong about how this operates. I've worn my Quest today. I am not lying to you.
As I am not lying to you when I tell you Meta gave up the Facebook login requirement years ago. You can just make a separate Quest account if you want. You can in fact detach your old Facebook account if you had it linked. You can also make multiple accounts on the same device and use them offline. I know because I have that exact setup on my Quest right now.
Don't think I don't notice that you're trying to squirrel out of having lied here by flipping to "a Facebook/Meta account". It won't fly. The issue people had was having to tie their headsets to Facebook and their social media ID. Meta accounts can be made freely with just a burner email, just like a PSN or an Xbox account, you don't need to associate it to anything else. It's not the same.
Also, please, if you're just going to respond with factually incorrect monosyllables don't bother with the quotes, it's a waste of space.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're speaking from ignorance here. I am less willing to forgive the sheer amount of rage given how wrong you are on the verifiable facts. Much as you're in character for a Ferengi, you may want to consider holding back some of that anger for an issue you actually care about. You're gonna run out.
Look, you clearly have way more time on your hands to simp for Facebook than I do to figure your lies, so I'm only going to cover the first few lines of your comment. I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your comment. It's probably just more lies anyway.
The irony.
No shit. I alluded to that myself, when I said it has a storefront. That's obviously not something a monitor could run itself.
I'm going to put this in bold, italics, and in caps, maybe then it'll get through to you:
FACEBOOK'S QUEST DEVICES REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE AN ACCOUNT JUST TO USE IT AS A BASIC DISPLAY. I DON'T FIND ENFORCING A FACEBOOK/META ACCOUNT TO USE AN HDMI PORT/DISPLAY TO BE ACCEPTABLE. NEITHER DO MANY OTHERS. STOP TRYING TO MISREPRESENT WHAT I AND OTHERS ARE SAYING.
Did that get through? Do you understand?
Now, maybe you're fine with jumping through whatever hoops Facebook wants to put in place. Maybe you think it's a good thing. Maybe you have posters of Zuckerberg up in your bathroom so he can watch you piss. I'm not really interested.
If you like signing in with a Facebook account, good for you. You enjoy your quest. I'm ecstatic with joy for you, YOU DO YOU KING. But not everyone wants to be forced into signing in with a Facebook/Meta account to use a display output.
I don't sign in with a Facebook account. I decoupled that stuff because it is something you now can do after Meta caved to the pressure.
Which I've noticed you're no longer claiming didn't happen, so I guess for all the bold all-caps Internet yelling we're making progress. But still, that's what this thread was about, before you got here all yelly and screamy and weird latching onto some random comment about monitors.
Now, what you're saying is confusing because you seem confused about what you're angry about. One, Oculus (not Meta, this was pre-Facebook) backed off on its pre-release claims that it would not require a separate store to use the device and deployed the Oculus store with no cross-purchase options with Steam. And yes, that meant you needed to log in to Oculus (not Meta) to use the Rift and the Rift S. That sucked because the app sucked and it didn't always play nice with Steam VR and was basically bloatware. That remains in place, although Meta has shifted to being all Quest-first, so it's pretty residual.
And then there's the Quest, which is, again, a self-contained platform and has the same login requirements from any other self-contained platform. It also happens to have software support to be used as a PC display wired and wirelessly. Wirelessly this is pretty straightforward: you simply do not want to wirelessly stream your display to ANYTHING that isn't locked out from public access. That is a big duh.
For wired display your mileage may vary a bit more, but it's very likely not trivial to use the device as a HMD without going through the device, just technically. It definitely seems like a disproportionate amount of rage, though, considering that a) there are plenty of alternatives for "dumb" HMDs, and b) Meta is famously subsidizing the crap out of the Quest (which is, again, the point of this thread), so it's a bit weird to be screamy mad about them not engineering a way to use it while it's turned off as a simple HMD.
That is so far above and beyond the original reason people were mad about it's absurd. It no longer is "Oculus backed down into not having its own exclusive store purchases", it no longer is "Meta backed down on not forcing to link the Quest with Facebook accounts", it is now "Meta should let me use its heavily subsidized device without ever interacting with its OS to repurpose it as a cheap HMD for a different device". Not only are they not alone in doing that (Sony is only now allowing the PSVR 2 being used on PC, and that requires an additional purchase), but it's so above and beyond of a fringe use case it warrants exactly zero anger. Go buy a device that... you know, doesn't have an Android OS and a SoC in it. What are you mad at Meta about?
And for the record, I do NOT like Meta at all. I actively avoid most of their products any time I can. If I have to interact with anything Meta in my browser I put it on a Firefox container with nothing else. I actively believe they should be split up. They are a big part of a larger dynamic around social media eroding the very concept of liberal democratic statehood.
But also... that's enough to get mad at them? Like, I don't need to make up additional, random, factually incorrect, entirely unreasonable entitled customer whiney crap to be mad about. There is plenty of reasonable stuff that doesn't make me sound like ranting lunatic on the Internet, and if they want to sell me VR hardware at half price or whatever I feel no need to do mental gymnastics to avoid it. I will ride that train and suckle on that teat for as long as good old Zuck wants to give me cheap hardware. Believe it or not, it's entirely possible to hold those two stances at the same time.
That's a whole lot of text for justifying Facebook requiring an account to use a display and HDMI port.
Can you please stop repeatedly lying? It's so easy to not lie.
I honestly don't put it past Samsung. Their TVs already do. I have an old monitor, and I'm currently using what will probably be my last smartphone from them. They make good hardware, but I'm tired of them insisting on knowing everything I do to use it.
They do not ask you to login to use your monitor.