Zelensky is correct, Putin is identical to, take your pick, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Franco and Tojo.
this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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Stalin is one of three world leaders that SAVED europe from Hitler.
Well, Trump is obviously not going to help anyone but himself. But that doesn't mean Europe is doomed. Plenty of nuclear weapons in Europe. If anything, everyone's doomed.
Eastern Europe: "we know already, and they (pointing westwards) are starting to get it".
The ones that really don't get it are former Warsaw pact areas like Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia. Who actively SUPPORT Russia!
Serbia is not former Warsaw pact.
We built NATO for this while goddamn reason, Kyiv just wasn’t available as a signatory at that time. It is now. Use the opportunity, before the USA is able to thwart it due to our current Foothold situation
ukraine has the second largest military in europe. if trump pulls the us out of nato, it may suddenly become an issue.
Not really. Europe's army is "small" because we have not been drafted.
Populations:
- Europe: 450 million
- Russia: 150 million
- Ukraine: 35 million
Defending countries will draft most of their people, while the attackers draft far less. Countries that are not at war will simply not draft and will have a natural army size. (Which protects the country until people get drafted and trained)
There's no reason to compare apples and pears here.
Europe's population is ~744m.
EU's population is ~450m. Not Europe's.
However you'd also have to account for the population of all NATO countries, minus potentially the US, were it to come to a conflict against its members.
How many are in the age range for the draft? It's not just total population, you can only really count those that are in the age range for army service.
Yes I meant EU. Which I think was what Zelensky meant. Russia is part of Europe the continent anyways.
Only people taking the draft actually seriously would be nations that have been at war or occupied with russia. For westerners russia is "that funny accent vodka nation" instead of the existential, genocidal torture enthusiast nation waiting to end you.
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He's right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It's going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn't have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I'm not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)... but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It's incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin's gaze.
The fucking Muscovites want the Suwalki Gap, which is part of Poland and I'm certain they will try to take more land. Then there's Finland, a former Russian Empire vassal state. The European NATO members should ignore Putin's Sock Puppet in the USA, properly supply and train the Ukrainians and lift the weapons restrictions. Fuck Russia.
if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Insane. It pisses me off no end that we haven't given them the tools to not just defend their freedom, but to win. Fuck your fear of escalation. There are North Korean soldiers fighting a war of aggression in Europe.
Like how much more are we going to take?
Your biggest mistake is assuming that those tools will help against a country that has experience dealing with actual superpowers on the frontlines Backed by a nuclear power & a 2nd superpower
all of it. Europe bought the lie of peace dividends, outsourced their defense to America, and elected weapons grade morons and co-conspirators like Burlesconi, Merkel and Orban, who opened the door for Putin to put Europe in a comprimising position once he decided to s tart shooting.
And now America wants out.
Europe's either going to have to prepare for war. or accept that Russia is going to get to do what it wants, and continue to ratfuck European politics with shit like Orban, Fico, and whatever the fuck BRUV is.
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I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn't have to worry about war on their soil.
Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
Indeed, as long as the Russian public can absorb the causalities and ignore the piss poor conditions their soldiers are facing, the war will continue. Russia needs another 1917 to end the war and we could kick them out East Prussia, Karelia and the Northern Territories.
No one is allowed to become famous in Russia anymore, whenever someone's "brand" grows. as a figure other than the tZar. that person is very quickly dissapeared or unalived.
look at both Prigozhyn and Navalny. as examples, The objective here is clear, they are trying to prevent figureheads from acheiving the support necessary to organize a revolution. Russia has an entire "army" of militarized and secret police who's basically only got one real job, on the side they beat protesters and such, but their real job is to figuratively and literally hold a gun to the head of the army. to terrorize and intimidate the people in the military and their families, so they have no question or thought about disobeying what the boss says.
in the 90s and 2000s they were much less discrete about it, there would be cases of literal mafia goons driving into army bases, being let in, and the army base would just get robbed and people beaten up and sometimes taken, because the people in the army were scared to death of the people the goons worked for. The Mafia and The State are the same thing in Russia.
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Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
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