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I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn't have to worry about war on their soil.
Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
As long as the nuke is dropped on my head, I don't care.
I could use a break from all this winning tho
Putin has said as much, it is why he constantly reminds everyone of his nuclear arsenal and apparent willingness to end the world over small matters.
Small dick energy on Putins part.
Astroturfing orcs downvoting
Putin doesn't own a big red button he can push to launch nukes. There are layers in command that would not comply. And they've done it before. Same goes for Trump.
the Russian system is far less removed from failsafes than the US one is.
while I dont think its active anymore, the russian system was rumoured to be completely autonomous too, meaning if connection was broken between points A and B, or however the network was set up, such as Moscow or the supposed command bunkers in Mount Yamantau got taken out, some missiles would launch automatically.
as I said though, I dont think they've had the dead hand turned on for many many years. trusting a soviet computer not to malfunction is like playing russian roulette with 4 in the cylinder.
except ukraine was the one maintaining russian missiles and we know very well how poor russian military maintenance culture is and how low the morale is to do anything if failure to do so does not result in beatings/rape. Pair that with how damn remote everything is and how even in 90s there were silos where not the high maintenance missile was in disrepair but the silo basic systems were, then the more accurate analogy would be "russian roulette with 25 round capacity cylinder, 10 rounds in and 90% are duds.
I'm not sure how, for one second you believe that if Putin ordered a nuclear strike, that order wouldn't be carried out.
I think some people underestimate how spiteful Russians are.
their whole national identity, since the advent of Z-Fascism, has become "We dont care if we die, But we'll take you with us, you have far more to lose than us"
Maybe or maybe not.
Look at Israel. Why do you think the US sending them more weapons for their genocide every month? Because they don't have the material to fight a protracted war. That's largely how it is in Europe too, and it's a good thing, because they don't have the 'bomb first and then ask questions later' mentality that Americans do.
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
I'm not sure, but since this is the Russian-Ukraine conflict we're talking about, we don't have to worry about one showing up. Russia is barely a near peer to Ukraine, they wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against more than one country at a time without their nukes, let alone NATO as a whole.
Nukes are literally the only thing that lets Russia pretend they're still a superpower and not a failed state. But as we can see in Ukraine, they can't even beat a former client state and has to resort to bringing our cold war era equipment, so double lol at "similar capabilities"
Russia is more than capable of butchering european civilian populations, that is the main concern.
everyone knows they'd get their shit rocked in conventional war, its the mass murder of civilians, bombardment of cities, and retaliatiory table flipping ragequit nuclear attacks that everyone is afraid of.
Realtalk, Ukraine and russia are the only two big nations with experience in drone warfare, which is the current patch. Everyone else hasn't really updated yet.
I believe you are forgetting about the vast and formidable legion of battle-hardened and experienced North Korean soldiers they have at their disposal. /s
Don't forget the various foreign nationals they tricked with promises of well paying support jobs only to hand them rifles and send them to the front lines.
That is more concerning since they are almost all exclusively pedophiles.
Okay bud. Russia has pretty effectively burned through their best equipment and skilled fighters and is basically running on pure authoritarian insistence right now.
fighting a conventional war, yeah they're a joke.
but they are more than capable of butchering european civilian populations, bombarding cities, and if need be, flipping the table in a rage and launching, after they panic when their conventional forces are defeated.
you dont need a sophisticated army to commit mass murder and destruction. the concern isn't about preventing european militaries from being outmanuevered, surrounded and killed. its about preventing the russians from tiny breakthroughs that result in things like Bucha or Mariupol, where a city is burned to the ground, where a town has hundreds of innocent people executed.
Similar technologies is an extreme stretch as well, Russia is not anywhere near the technology level of other NATO nations. They need China to get anywhere near that level, and I'm not sure China would give them that level of support if a wider conflict broke out.
We're talking about Russia here.
you're right, we should take the fight to them. they should have to deal with cleaning up landmines etc after all their base are belong to us
TIL training doesn't exist.
Training will only get your units to level 3. Then it only provides a trickle of army XP to maybe get a doctrine out, at a huge cost of equipment. If you want units at level 5 before the big one starts, you've got to send volunteers. But seriously, I'm pretty sure actual combat is much different than training.
A random story on that topic: A family member of mine, who was in the service, got where he was going with his people, told everybody what to do, and everything got underway. A little group of people went down the path they were supposed to go down. A little while later one of their guys comes TEARING back up the path, all in a panic, and yells at my family member "JESUS CHRIST SERGEANT THEY'RE KILLING PEOPLE DOWN THERE".
Like, yeah, I get it. It's pretty fucking upsetting. Training is one thing and seeing people turning into corpses and chunks flying off them is way, way different. I'm not trying to make light, because I do get what he was getting it, but my family thought it was pretty funny.