this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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Summary

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned Europe that it cannot withstand Russia without Ukraine’s military, calling Ukraine’s victory vital to stopping Kremlin expansion.

Speaking to Polish media, Zelenskyy stressed that Russia’s larger, more brutal army would target other European nations if Ukraine falls.

He criticized Western allies for underestimating Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, urging them to strengthen Ukraine’s defenses.

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[–] deadcream@sopuli.xyz -5 points 1 day ago (5 children)

How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?

[–] htrayl@lemmy.world 25 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

"similar technological and production capabilities"

Okay bud. Russia has pretty effectively burned through their best equipment and skilled fighters and is basically running on pure authoritarian insistence right now.

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

fighting a conventional war, yeah they're a joke.
but they are more than capable of butchering european civilian populations, bombarding cities, and if need be, flipping the table in a rage and launching, after they panic when their conventional forces are defeated.

you dont need a sophisticated army to commit mass murder and destruction. the concern isn't about preventing european militaries from being outmanuevered, surrounded and killed. its about preventing the russians from tiny breakthroughs that result in things like Bucha or Mariupol, where a city is burned to the ground, where a town has hundreds of innocent people executed.

[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 9 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Similar technologies is an extreme stretch as well, Russia is not anywhere near the technology level of other NATO nations. They need China to get anywhere near that level, and I'm not sure China would give them that level of support if a wider conflict broke out.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 14 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?

I'm not sure, but since this is the Russian-Ukraine conflict we're talking about, we don't have to worry about one showing up. Russia is barely a near peer to Ukraine, they wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell against more than one country at a time without their nukes, let alone NATO as a whole.

Nukes are literally the only thing that lets Russia pretend they're still a superpower and not a failed state. But as we can see in Ukraine, they can't even beat a former client state and has to resort to bringing our cold war era equipment, so double lol at "similar capabilities"

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Russia is more than capable of butchering european civilian populations, that is the main concern.

everyone knows they'd get their shit rocked in conventional war, its the mass murder of civilians, bombardment of cities, and retaliatiory table flipping ragequit nuclear attacks that everyone is afraid of.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 2 points 9 hours ago

Realtalk, Ukraine and russia are the only two big nations with experience in drone warfare, which is the current patch. Everyone else hasn't really updated yet.

[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 11 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I believe you are forgetting about the vast and formidable legion of battle-hardened and experienced North Korean soldiers they have at their disposal. /s

[–] Nasan@sopuli.xyz 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Don't forget the various foreign nationals they tricked with promises of well paying support jobs only to hand them rifles and send them to the front lines.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 hours ago

That is more concerning since they are almost all exclusively pedophiles.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 8 points 23 hours ago

against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?

We're talking about Russia here.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 1 points 18 hours ago

you're right, we should take the fight to them. they should have to deal with cleaning up landmines etc after all their base are belong to us

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 7 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Training will only get your units to level 3. Then it only provides a trickle of army XP to maybe get a doctrine out, at a huge cost of equipment. If you want units at level 5 before the big one starts, you've got to send volunteers. But seriously, I'm pretty sure actual combat is much different than training.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 7 points 23 hours ago

A random story on that topic: A family member of mine, who was in the service, got where he was going with his people, told everybody what to do, and everything got underway. A little group of people went down the path they were supposed to go down. A little while later one of their guys comes TEARING back up the path, all in a panic, and yells at my family member "JESUS CHRIST SERGEANT THEY'RE KILLING PEOPLE DOWN THERE".

Like, yeah, I get it. It's pretty fucking upsetting. Training is one thing and seeing people turning into corpses and chunks flying off them is way, way different. I'm not trying to make light, because I do get what he was getting it, but my family thought it was pretty funny.