Well, Trump is obviously not going to help anyone but himself. But that doesn't mean Europe is doomed. Plenty of nuclear weapons in Europe. If anything, everyone's doomed.
this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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Eastern Europe: "we know already, and they (pointing westwards) are starting to get it".
The ones that really don't get it are former Warsaw pact areas like Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia. Who actively SUPPORT Russia!
We built NATO for this while goddamn reason, Kyiv just wasn’t available as a signatory at that time. It is now. Use the opportunity, before the USA is able to thwart it due to our current Foothold situation
ukraine has the second largest military in europe. if trump pulls the us out of nato, it may suddenly become an issue.
Not really. Europe's army is "small" because we have not been drafted.
Populations:
- Europe: 450 million
- Russia: 150 million
- Ukraine: 35 million
Defending countries will draft most of their people, while the attackers draft far less. Countries that are not at war will simply not draft and will have a natural army size. (Which protects the country until people get drafted and trained)
There's no reason to compare apples and pears here.
Europe's population is ~744m.
EU's population is ~450m. Not Europe's.
However you'd also have to account for the population of all NATO countries, minus potentially the US, were it to come to a conflict against its members.
Yes I meant EU. Which I think was what Zelensky meant. Russia is part of Europe the continent anyways.
Only people taking the draft actually seriously would be nations that have been at war or occupied with russia. For westerners russia is "that funny accent vodka nation" instead of the existential, genocidal torture enthusiast nation waiting to end you.
He's right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It's going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn't have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I'm not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)... but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It's incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin's gaze.
if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Insane. It pisses me off no end that we haven't given them the tools to not just defend their freedom, but to win. Fuck your fear of escalation. There are North Korean soldiers fighting a war of aggression in Europe.
Like how much more are we going to take?
Your biggest mistake is assuming that those tools will help against a country that has experience dealing with actual superpowers on the frontlines Backed by a nuclear power & a 2nd superpower
all of it. Europe bought the lie of peace dividends, outsourced their defense to America, and elected weapons grade morons and co-conspirators like Burlesconi, Merkel and Orban, who opened the door for Putin to put Europe in a comprimising position once he decided to s tart shooting.
And now America wants out.
Europe's either going to have to prepare for war. or accept that Russia is going to get to do what it wants, and continue to ratfuck European politics with shit like Orban, Fico, and whatever the fuck BRUV is.
Not a problem for Europe.
https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/efscm-assessment-autumn-2023_en.pdf
Reads differently
Looking ahead, most of the respondents expect current risks to persist, in particular the frequency of extreme weather events, and the unpredictability of how the Russian invasion of Ukraine will evolve. Concerning the latter, risks are not only linked to the availability of imports, but also to ongoing price volatility both for inputs and commodities and to potential logistical restrictions in place. Several respondents anticipate no decline in food inflation in the coming months, as input and production costs are expected to stay up, thus keeping consumer prices high due to delayed price transmission between different stages of the food chain
So there are concerns about the invasion and it's driving food inflation.
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I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn't have to worry about war on their soil.
Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
Lmao you really fell for the Russian propaganda.
quite the opposite.
but I've been watching their actions for the last 10 years. And it's clear to me that most of Europe has not even been remotely taking this seriously. Militarily Russia will obviously lose, but an unthinkable amount of people will still die.
World War III is already in it's pre-game show phase. and Quisling governments are already trying to take hold of European countries before the drop of the ball/puck/etc
Lolololol. Russia couldn't invade the one of the poorest countries in Europe. They couldn't do shit against any real power. And now they've wasted all their equipment and men. Ok I'm out you've fallen hard for bs.
Ok I'm out
Good riddance.
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
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Putin has said as much, it is why he constantly reminds everyone of his nuclear arsenal and apparent willingness to end the world over small matters.
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