this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
74 points (96.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43963 readers
1330 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Eventually but I think society might need to collapse and rebuild in between, and that supporting this level of complex civilization isn't gonna be possible, nor IMO desirable.
This is not to say we would go back to being cavemen, just that society has less tech and energy at its disposal and less people.
I guess we could get there without collapse, but I have zero faith in any kind of degrowth moment despite agreeing with it ideologically. This would help us avoid much death and suffering but it doesn't seem to be priority for anyone in power.
Progression to Socialism is the alternative. We shouldn't advocate for collapse, but public ownership and central planning, which can facilitate green initiatives divorced from the profit motive.
All collapse will do is reset the clock, we will eventually run into the problems of late-stage Capitalism again once humanity runs the course of history again in hundreds or thousands of years.
Name one socialist/communist nation that hasn't been growth based industrialist economy? I think anything growth based is not gonna happen much longer, due to energy shortage, habitat loss, climate change, running out of critical minerals etc.
Sure I'm open for some degrowth socialism but don't really believe that's the way things gonna work out.
AES states historically plan production based on fulfilling needs, not profits. Profit is driven by consumption, so there is always an incentive to overproduce. Combined with a focus on green energy and efficient planning, Socialism is a necessity, and again, returning to earlier production methods will only result in repeating the historical development in Mode of Production.