this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024

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Mexico Is Suing US Gun-Makers for Arming Its Gangs (www.truthdig.com)

submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by tree@lemmy.zip to c/usa@lemmy.ml

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The Mexican government is seeking billions of dollars in damages for arms suppliers' role in cross-border gun trafficking.

The government of Mexico is suing U.S. gun-makers for their role in facilitating cross-border gun trafficking that has supercharged violent crime in Mexico.

The lawsuit seeks US$10 billion in damages and a court order to force the companies named in the lawsuit – including Smith & Wesson, Colt, Glock, Beretta and Ruger – to change the way they do business. In January, a federal appeals court in Boston decided that the industry’s immunity shield, which so far has protected gun-makers from civil liability, does not apply to Mexico’s lawsuit.

As a legal scholar who has analyzed lawsuits against the gun industry for more than 25 years, I believe this decision to allow Mexico’s lawsuit to proceed could be a game changer. To understand why, let’s begin with some background about the federal law that protects the gun industry from civil lawsuits.

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[–] Tak@lemmy.ml 58 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I truly wish Mexico luck, the US legal system protects gun makers better than children.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

Children get bullets and thoughts and prayers.

[+] SupraMario@lemmy.world -20 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Lol what a dumb statement. Add in that it also protects alcohol manufacturers and swimming pool companies as well.

[–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I don't know why but I feel the need to remind you that here...

THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH OF CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE IN AMERICA IS GUNS.

more than disease, more than SIDS, more than car accidents and suicide. Gun violence. There is no fucking excuse for it. American children are dying to fucking bullets. It's not a dumb statement. The US government refuses time and time again to demand change from the fire arm industry and it fails to pass meaningful legislation protecting those children from death by firearms every god damned year. Those children's blood is on the hands of the killers, true, but it is also on the hands of every single person failing to do what they were elected to fucking do, protect their represented populations.

[–] crusa187@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago

To be fair, repugnantcons in FL are working hard to ensure preventable diseases overtake gun deaths as the #1 child killer in USA

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -1 points 7 months ago

It's actually cars as it has been for the past 50 years, but you never seemed to care then.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

No it's not, that stat was during the pandemic when driving around was drastically reduced, and it doesn't help that they include children to be 1 to 19...guess which stat falls into the 15-19 yo crowd? Gang violence/homicides. Of which is where the majority of our overall violence and firearm homicides come from.

So no, go read some statistics before spouting off bullshit. More children die from drowning each year than killed by the legislation that wants to ban "assault weapons".

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

COVID had the opposite effect, as this article covers. Motor vehicle deaths rose following a fairly steady decline over the past twenty years. Gun deaths just rose as at a higher pace, going from third following cancer to first.

But just comparing cause of death misses the point, really: this is not a phenomena that peer countries experience. While this has become somewhat accepted as the norm in the US, there's no real reason we ever had to let it get this bad.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

As might be expected, teenagers have higher firearm mortality rates than children. In the U.S., teens ages 18 and 19 have a firearm mortality rate of 25.2 per 100,000, compared to a rate of 3.7 per 100,000 for children ages 1-17 in the U.S.

As I said, gang violence.

And again it's higher because not as many people where driving, is why firearm deaths rose during the pandemic, I didn't say they dropped.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/2022-deadliest-children-killed-traffic-235000356.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADA6TGT3hrJQdWLVm_DRywfQIqZ3p4gzK7n51ayq2yZ5TvQ3-FWija5klqZ3O_ZC7bCE2_HZMw1pVmleVT3gYUSOHlXsA2pYVzPepzPpV3ftxXJJVMRgpfqAw4Br2ZcIPzcQxYIDx7rsd8GTJBBxM2Uym9cedfRLwwDrS_xMVNxD

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I know this is a liberal space, so I see a lot of ignorance regarding guns and laws. LiberalGunNut™ with thoughts:

The meat of their argument:

Mexico claims that U.S. gun-makers engaged in “deliberate efforts to create and maintain an illegal market for their weapons in Mexico.”

That, uh, sounds hard to prove as factual.

...the manufacturers intentionally design their weapons to be attractive to criminal organizations in Mexico by including features such as easy conversion to fully automatic fire, compatibility with high-capacity magazines and removable serial numbers... easy conversion to fully automatic fire, compatibility with high-capacity magazines...

Guns are not designed this way. Guns are mechanical devices, they can be hardware hacked. And the hacks are often stupid. The Aurora shooter had to drop his AR-15 right off because his tacticool mag jammed. No one who knows guns will touch the stupid things. Because they weren't designed to work.

removable serial numbers

WTF are they talking about?! I have a shitload of various gun types, none have "removeable" serials. Unless you "remove" them with a power drill and/or file. Hardware hacking.

...manufacturers distribute their products to dealers whom they know serve as transit points for illegal gunrunning through illegal straw sales, unlicensed sales at gun shows and online, and off-book sales disguised as inventory theft.

LOL, hell to the no. This is like accusing Big Pharma of selling to street corner dealers. Doesn't even pass a logical sniff test.

Gun dealers are wildly strict with paperwork. Know why? Intense government scrutiny and federal penalties for fucking around. Penalties as in, "pound me in the ass prison" penalties. If you don't believe this, go get your Federal Firearms License. Maybe you'll qualify? An FFL doesn't even make you a dealer, merely someone who can do the paperwork to transfer the gun from buyer to seller.

Straw sales? I doubt that happens much. If it did, the media would, rightfully, be screaming every time they caught a case. Besides, it's damned near impossible to prove intent. I bought a pistol for my wife for Christmas. Straw sale? No, a gift. But what if she was a "prohibited person" and I didn't know? (She's not American so I did my homework, but still...)

Unlicensed sales at gun show? Only people believe that are people who haven't been to a gun show. Go ahead, try to purchase a weapon without an FFL. Good luck. (Don't do this. You'll get thrown out, likely reported to the cops. Who are standing right there.)

Online? Maybe Armslist.com? LOL, you can bet the feds got eyes on that place! You're not equipping a militia out of there. Buncha random crap the sellers don't want at near-new prices.

Maybe they got something I don't know about. 🤷🏻‍♂️ After all, didn't the industry take a (rightful, IMHO) beating over advertising practices? Can't find the case I'm looking for, too much noise on the subject.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Exactly. Most people seem to be worried about things that are non-issues, and completely ignore things that are.

For example, private sales are legal in many parts of the country, and those often don't require any paperwork to be submitted (though I think records of sale need to be kept). If you work selling guns, you're not allowed to do private sales whatsoever, so that's a non-issue as well. But if you just own guns, you may sell them person to person legally in enough states to matter.

And that's where I think we need reform. All gun sales should go through either a firearm dealer or the local police, since those are the groups capable of doing the necessary checks. Those should have a nominal fee attached, but nothing so high as to encourage black market sales. I also think all gun buyers should be required to prove that they've done a gun safety course somewhat recently.

But gun reform advocates blame manufacturers and retailers, yet they're not the causes of the problems we're seeing.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Yeah, I suspect most guns are obtained unlawfully via two means: theft and undocumented pass-offs. Part of why serial numbers are removed is so the route by which the gun got to someone is obscured. You have someone willing to lawfully buy firearms or burglarize them, dremmel off the serial numbers so they're harder to trace, then sell it off for whatever at a profit.

Also, I think when they say 'removeable serial number', they are absolutely counting dremmel-able numbers on the body. I could see manufacturers being able to embed a copy of the serial number; either throughout body of the part or inside the body of the part. For example: every printer in the US has a signature of dots it leaves on the copies it prints, which allow that copy to be traced back to that specific printer. That would undoubtedly complicate manufacturing, though. You're going from precision milling some billet to all of sudden having to embed some signature into/onto that billet.

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

I'm gonna sue Mexico's gangs for increasing the price of guns with their buying power! /s

[–] Fox@pawb.social 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Kind of funny then to use a picture of an Italian pistol for the article then

[–] Montagge@kbin.social 10 points 7 months ago

They have manufacturing in the US as well

[–] Thcdenton@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

No way José

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Good luck with that. Would be nice to see some changes but there's just no way that's gonna happen here.

[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Dude... you can't sue the people with the guns... they'll shoot you.

"What are you going to do, shoot me?"

Mexico that got shot.

I hope they get something out of it, though.

[–] LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Good luck with that.

[–] PopcornTin@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago

They'd have better luck building a huge wall and inspecting everything that comes through.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm suing Mexico for the creation of Tacos, which led to the eventual creation of the abomination known as Taco Time fast food restaurants.

[–] Drusas@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You would not believe how much people in Seattle love that abomination. Unless you're also here.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I am, and you're right, I cannot believe it. The entire thing baffles me.

[–] Drusas@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

For non-locals: they put ranch dressing on their tacos.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

And sometimes mayonnaise!