this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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[–] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Locking this thread to clean up the mess. Come on, ya'll, we can do better than this.

Edit: I've unlocked the comments in here. We've removed some comments in this thread for being inflammatory or for not adhering to Beehaw's one (and only) sitewide rule: Be(e) Nice.

To elaborate a bit on what that means in !politics:

Be(e) Nice doesn't mean you have to always be positive or happy. It doesn't mean you always have to agree. It does, however, that at all times we have to remember the human on the other side of the screen. We can disagree and still be kind to each other and try to assume that others are operating in good faith. I get it - politics are messy and complicated and the issues are big and for many existential. But we can talk to each other and disagree with one another without resorting to personal attacks or escalating the discussion into an all out flame war.

And to reiterate - that doesn't mean that we will tolerate hate speech, JAQing off, sealioning, or other ways of engaging in bad faith. If you see these things, please report them to the mods.

[–] Uniquitous@lemmy.one 43 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Ugh. I'm not real happy about having to vote to uphold the gerontocracy, but as both likely frontrunners are a part thereof, all I can do is vote to minimize the harm.

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[–] kbbeen@beehaw.org 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Wow, a lot of vitriol on this topic! Okay, so, for my first post on Lemmy I am going to make a positive leftist case for Biden.

Biden is not the problem! He wants to do big things; he wants be a great president. If congress sent him voting rights, reproductive rights, major climate action, and many other leftist priorities, he would sign them. He could definitely be better, but he is mostly not standing in our way. How many decades would you have to go back to find another president you could say that about?

Biden is not the problem. Congress is the problem. State and local governments are the problem. Nimbys are the problem. We have a lot of problems to solve but the presidency is not one of them. What we need to do with the presidency is simply reelect Biden and then get on with the work of solving the actual problems.

[–] thekbob@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Biden is still a centrist, also known as a fascist enabler.

The man is not for labor, see ending the railroad strike, one of the most infuriating moves a so-called great president could perform.

If he truly wanted to do great things, and not be hindered by the backing of capital, he'd be moving fast and breaking things more than the previous administration. He's not.

[–] macallik@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I understand your frustration but also encourage you to pay more attention to what happens behind the scenes. Your position on the railroad strike is outdated/misinformed relative to what happened a month ago:

When Joe Biden and Congress enacted legislation in December that blocked a threatened freight rail strike, many workers angrily faulted Biden for not ensuring that the legislation also guaranteed paid sick days. But since then, union officials says, members of the Biden administration, including the transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, and labor secretary, Marty Walsh, who stepped down on 11 March, lobbied the railroads, telling them it was wrong not to grant paid sick days.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave

In other words, Biden instructed his administration to double back and force the hand of the railroad companies to get the union exactly what they wanted.

[–] ondoyant@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago

IBEW statement. this is one of the unions involved, and their official statement on the matter. pretty positive.

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[–] slartibartfast42@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I don't think Biden wants to do big things.

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[–] sin_free_for_00_days@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think it's a bunch of kids with little life experience. On one hand their passion recalls fading memories of my own young, idealistic self in my 20s. On the other hand, politics doesn't work with raging hardliners. On the third hand, the world is pretty fucked, the US is going to hell in a handbasket and I don't think geriatrics are who we should be voting for. You say Congress is the problem, but really, it's voters. Voters just fucking suck. But unless someone wants to do away with any type of democracy, shitty voters is where we are at.

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[–] reverendsteveii@beehaw.org 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

we pick from the menu for dinner tonight, and for future meals we fight to have more of a say in what's on the menu. there's too many people calling for my head right now for me to protest vote or sit out because the guy who doesn't want to kill me is problematic about some niche policy position. remember that a lot of trump's money in 2016 went toward campaigning for democrats to stay home, with reasons alternating between "clinton is an awful candidate" (she was) and "she's got this in the bag so your vote doesn't matter".

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[–] sin_free_for_00_days@lemmy.one 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It would be nice to have a strong challenger, but the DNC protects its elders. I can't imagine any Dem not endorsing Biden as it's the only choice, and not endorsing him is a strange waste of political capital.

[–] jabib@beehaw.org 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It amazes me how much and how quick people are to blame Biden or AOC when the political landscape isn't this richly progressive utopia in a rank choice voting system. We have real problems in this country and the ONLY way we get closer to solving them is by not electing fascists

[–] Didros@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The ONLY way we get closer to solving them was by educating our populace about the dangers of authoritarianism in the wake of the world wars. And coming to terms as a nation how much the Nazi regime learned from America and our concentration camps that we don't teach nearly enough about.

But that ship kind of sailed and we now live in a country where some obscenely high percent of Americans don't even believe the holocaust happened at all.

In my opinion we are way past the solution being democrats, they hardly even stop the bleeding anymore. They are just there to show the masses that there are two parties and they didn't really want to pass all of this pro business, anti people legislation, but we had to because of the debt ceiling that we didn't even stop for long and the Republicans can beat us with it again in a few years.

The system is designed to be fucked.

[–] ondoyant@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

we can whine about how we didn't do the right thing before now all we want, but we live in the world of today, and the solution, or at least part of it, must be to keep the actual fascists from doing actual fascism. we have to do more, electoral politics isn't gonna save us, but genuinely it makes me really mad when people get all doomer about this shit. most people used to be serfs. a hundred years ago children were working in coal mines. progress can be made. progress against capitalists can be made. and if voting didn't matter businesses wouldn't be pouring money into politics, republicans wouldn't be trying their best to stop people from turning up.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago (9 children)

It would be nice to have a strong challenger

Under Biden, we've seen no meaningful action as the right to abortion was lost, housing scarcity has become a crisis for most Americans, another 100 billion unbudgeted was sent to another country's war, and there was zero meaningful progression on education, health care, militarizing police, or stopping the resurgence of fascism.

Voting for Biden is voting for team color and little else. The man is a shitty president more concerned with stringing together a coherent sentence and running cover for his son than doing anything for the people who got him elected. And the extent to which he is a shitty president is going to usher in an overt fascist when he tries to sell himself on his record in a year.

[–] IcedCoffeeBitch@beehaw.org 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean I really don't like Biden but fwiw he reversed policies from Trump in areas such as inmigration and transgender people (such as excluding HRT from Medicare), and did some work with food stamps, not to mention the damage control his administration had to do for COVID-19. If Trump have been re-elected, things would've been very very different, and if the Senate midterms hadn't turned out the way they did we might have had fascist federal laws by now.

Currently one party is the Fascist party and the other is the "literally anyone left from that" party. As sad as it is, Biden is probably what the DNC thinks is the best shot at having the entire party voting for him, from the social democrats to the conservatives, since he's not LGBTphobic nor racist, and supports the current status quo. And yes, the bar is pretty fucking low but if the Republican wins it will be even worse.

[–] Toribor@corndog.uk 23 points 1 year ago

Biden was my last choice out of the field of Democrats heading into 2020, and yet I don't know what any other candidate would have done differently to achieve better results.

I'm voting for the record and the strategy more than the man himself. I wish things were different but it's hard to argue with the results considering the state of Congress and the courts.

[–] sin_free_for_00_days@lemmy.one 32 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Passed under Biden:

  • PACT Act
  • American Rescue Plan
  • Impressive job growth and low unemployment
  • Bi-partisan Infrastructure
  • Helping defeat Russia

Not a complete failure, but I mean if the alternative is another geriatric, but one who is twice impeached, twice indicted and scummy, it's a shitty choice, but it's the only choice.

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's the only choice because he was shoved down Dem throats though. Great, he accomplished some things. Quite frankly any empty suit could have done that with the clout of the rest of the party. A non-geriatric progressive could have potentially done much more, but the establishment won't run anyone like that. Eventually the fragmentation will grow too great and start working against itself (we may already be there).

When Biden supported the rail corporations and waffled on student loans (pre-SC scumbaggery), it was apparent that he's just a shill. The latter went against a campaign promise, but memories are short.

Edit: also "helping defeat Russia" is arguably not a thing. They are not the threat to the US that they used to be. Sure, it's great to support Ukraine. But China is the only real military threat to the US, and Biden has been status quo there. I get that the US is world police, but let's not treat the Military Industrial Complex as a plus.

[–] ondoyant@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

just a heads up, you should look into that rail thing again. the unions ended up getting alot of what they wanted because Biden's admin did actually follow through with negotiations. definitely not cool, but also not the unambiguous support of corporations you seem to have interpreted it as. IBEW statement. there are people who are still unhappy, because capitalism sucks and they should be unhappy, but lots of railworkers got significantly improved working conditions out of it.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Biden didn't even need a bill to forgive student debt.

He did it unilaterally in the case of people who were defrauded. The whole song and dance with his 'plan' was to give him plausible deniability so his corporate backers wouldn't lose their golden goose.

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[–] shadowolf@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 year ago

The issue of abortion isn't solely attributable to Biden. It's the result of 50 years of GOP-aligned think tanks and policymakers strategizing for this outcome. One could argue that the Democrats missed an opportunity during their supermajority periods to enshrine abortion rights in the constitution, instead relying on legal arguments, which, to be fair, were upheld by the courts. This issue wasn't perceived as a political threat, and it was unexpected that the GOP would follow through on this. It's akin to a dog chasing a car and actually catching it.

As for education and healthcare, these are primarily legislative matters. The executive branch doesn't wield as much power as some might think, and any power it does have typically doesn't extend beyond the current president's term. Biden should be seen more as a check on the GOP rather than an initiator of change.

Criticizing Biden's speaking abilities is somewhat unfair. He has a stutter that he constantly battles when speaking, and age has inevitably dulled some of his skills. Regarding his son, yes, he has made mistakes.

The Ukraine war involves complex geopolitics. There's a genuine moral argument at play here. Germany and the EU are willing to take a significant hit by excluding Russian energy from the market, which speaks volumes.

The $100 billion deal is advantageous for the US. It effectively sidelines Russia from the geopolitical table. Russia has shown signs of wanting to reclaim most of the USSR borders, primarily for logistical reasons. The Russian military struggles to hold territory within its own borders due to the lack of natural chokepoints until you reach the old USSR borders. Ukraine was never the end goal, but a stepping stone. Russia, like the rest of the developed world, is experiencing a population decline, which means they won't have the manpower or technical expertise in a few decades.

Stalling Russia's plans in Ukraine now is a proactive measure to prevent future issues. This also serves to deter China and make them reconsider any plans with Taiwan.

[–] ondoyant@beehaw.org 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

stop with the prophecy, and stop with the doomer shit. sure, lets say voting biden is "voting for team color". tell me, would the other team be better? fuck no, we'd be getting even more fucked than we already are. there would be a federal abortion ban. the federal government would be pursuing an actively genocidal agenda towards queer people across the country. millions of real human lives would be negatively affected. there would be less than no action on climate change, instead of the "meager" biggest investment in renewables in US history.

it just makes me so mad. if the red team wins, MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE. is that not meaningful? it is to me. it should be to you. vote blue. it isn't enough, but not everybody has the privilege of ideological purity. we have to survive in order to thrive.

[–] macallik@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree.

This thread is the first time I've been embarrassed to be a part of the fediverse. This thread shows a lot of nihilistic people who don't actually follow politics well enough to have views based in reality. People reference the railroad situation without understanding the resolution and reference student debt and other areas as if Biden had full control of the house/senate.

It really is the left's version of Trump supporters in that they revel in their ignorance, wear it as a badge and then encourage others to follow the same path. At least Trump supporters have the decency to encourage their contemporaries to vote in elections smh.

[–] uint8_t@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

sometimes I wonder if the "both sides" leftists are privileged accelerationists

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[–] ArtZuron@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But really, whose fault is that really? The people actually trying to make meaningful changes (even begrudgingly) or the people that stand in the way of literally all progress and are actual responsible for all of those problems to begin with?

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[–] HisNoodlyServant@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago

Biden is trying to get some progressive stuff done. For the most part pretty happy with his agenda. Still be nice to have someone running that isn't old as fuck.

[–] Peeko@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Really wish we didn't need to wait for politicians to die of old age before we could replace them...

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[–] RadioRat@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I really wish workers had enough organizing power to yeet these duplicitous assholes. Why can’t we have candidates who actually fucking care about bettering our circumstances?

[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Welp, there you have it.

AOC has absolutely, 100% betrayed the principles that got her elected in the first place. It's not surprising. Most people who stay in Washington long-term end up falling in line, but still, kind of disappointing to see.

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