Selfhosted

Upvoted, but I feel horrified by the notion. I'd much rather have a headless server

I mean, android is fine I guess, but it's being pushed to be less and less able to be separated from Google. I think for a lot of people interested in self hosting, there's a low amount of interest in it because of that.

IMO, more like Linux. Android for such old devices is unmaintained, but if you're able to run Linux on it you'll still be able to apply kernel updates and security updates for software will continue to exist. Many things are opensource too and you should be able to recompile them on the android device to make it run.

Hmm I think my main concern would be lack of kernel/firmware updates, running something like postmarketOS could partly solve that and still be nearly as easy to set up (just unlock and flash a prebuilt image)

But firmware is still almost entirely dependent on the vendor, since it's all signed and unpatchable.

Next issue would be lack of connectivity on a lot of phones, which have gone backwards and include USB 2.0 now. WiFi is an option, but less stable, I personally decided to just go 100Mbps and suffer.

As for the battery, it would help a lot if phones were designed to boot without one and they were removable, it all worked well for about half a year until I found out I had a spicy pillow and had to replace it with direct power to the board, which made the whole setup much less elegant and required soldering.

It all comes down to how devices are designed in the end. If someone took the time to make a computer instead of just a phone, and included features that make it useful past its initial life that aren't that popular (display output, microsd, headphone jack), mainlined all the drivers and maintained firmware, that would be a different story.

But that's not a very profitable model, because it's all about reducing waste and thus selling less. A lot needs to change.

Big problem: updates for something that is directly exposed to internet

Some low end devices will stop getting security updates 6 months after launch because the OEM launches a new model every two weeks and obviously doesn't have resources to dedicate to it

In some cases, even high end devices don't get updates and are discontinued internally shortly after launch, for example the Xiaomi mix 3 5g

Yes, root and custom ROMs could solve the problem, but not as easy as regular Linux where you just use a package manager to update. First issue is needing to wipe after updates and you have to reinstall and reconfigure everything

I feel like Android is adding some new power saving "feature" with every version to kill all the useful stuff I want to keep running in the background.

Last stupid thing I remember was when it removed my CalDAV synchronisation because I haven't been "using" the CalDAV app for some months.

Not to mention all the times it decides to kill something you want to use because it thinks the RAM would be more needed elsewhere. Honestly my 128 MB RAM Nokia N900 could run more apps at the same time than my 4 GB RAM Fairphone.

@Wander @selfhosted this whole “We are walking about with entirely reasonable servers in our pockets for reasonable scales - why doesn’t it feel like that?” thing is in my brain quite a bit.

Pretty cool concept actually. upcycling old tech does seem to be a selfhosting hobby. I see a lot of criticism that I think doesn't really see the value proposition. You should be able to root the device and install a new OS. I wonder how limited the bandwidth would be though, and whether it'd be worth the cost to get adapters, if they exist, to allow more throughput. I do like the concept though.

Android? No. It's not made for it. You are using a hammer to paint a wall.

Phones? With a different Linux based distro? I can see it happening. For a small niche at least.

Who provides the software and firmware updates for my antique Samsung S4 and Galaxy young?
I hope you will give me some firmware for the old snapdragon.
Don't forget the loads of Exynos CPUs and loads of GPUs from different vendors.

The future? No. A useful niche? Sure.

I run 4 mail servers, 2 game servers, 3 directory/auth servers, a firewall/router, a NAS, a security system server, a media server, a monitoring server, and a couple others. Android ain’t gonna cut it.

@selfhosted Update:

1. Just to clarify, the the whole point is that Android makes it easy for less tech oriented people to host small single user / family services.

It does not need to be perfect, have massive throughput or allow for massive amounts of read/write cycles.

If people can host their own media server like Jellyfin or note taking apps like Joplin instead of using commercial services by simply installing an APK on an old phone they can leave connected at home, that's already a big win.

2. Regarding device longevity, Android 13 apparently supports / will support full KVM emulation. Windows can be run if you have root while android based VMs are expected to be possible without the need for root. Since this type of virtualization allows VMs to run their own kernel, keeping the "server app" updated should allow the user to be protected even if the host OS is outdated as long as these server-app-VMs are trustworthy themselves.

Just use raspberry pis and Linux. You'll have better support.

It has an UPS builtin 😇

Jokes aside I used to run a few python bots inside termux on my very old S3 Mini a few years ago. It did the job at least.

You absolutely want to remove the batteries. Otherwise they would die of old age pretty soon and then it creates danger of fire. Either a new battery for your 'server' every 5 years, or some tinkering solution, maybe supercapacitors.

Then you need an OS with long term support/maintenance. Not stock Android, because it evolves away from old hardware too fast. Maybe something like Lineage.

One problem remains: I have serious doubts about the network interface, if it can handle high throughput or many connections, like a webserver for several users, or even torrenting. A NAS for 1 person seems very possible, though.

The latest pixel devices (since 6 I think?) already provide accees to a /dev/kvm device, so maybe you could even run a normal Ubuntu server VM on your phone for hosting these services.

I'd be more inclined to say Raspberry Pi. Low power, small, scalable.

And if you want Android, there's a https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#banana-pi

I'm currently designing a sync/backup/mesh network device for family/friends. Something they can simply plugin, and I can manage remotely.

@Wander @selfhosted Sounds like a great way to kill you phone's battery. But maybe if you created an ad-hoc stack... Have you ever heard of @veilidnetwork ?

@Wander @selfhosted This sort of setup is very attractive IMO because of the low power usage. Android phones use much less power than old PCs.

The main con I see is not having ethernet (maybe there's some sort of MicroUSB/USB-C to ethernet adapter, but I didn't look into it yet). That, and there being only one port.

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

6 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 5 acronyms.

[Thread #231 for this sub, first seen 22nd Oct 2023, 22:25] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

I've already heard of people using Termux to host services on their old phones. Seems to work well.

Counterpoint: spicy pillows

I was going to host pihole on an old android until I noticed it getting quite warm while continuously connected to power. Realised I didn't know the lifespan of the battery and didn't want it tp start a fire.

Just for shiggles, I setup and ran a minecraft Java server on an old phone for a little while. I did this through Termux.

It was surprisingly good.