Ask Lemmy

Loved it.

It's against human rights, and severely fucked-up

I believe that mandatory military service is absurd. Nobody chose to be born in any nation or under the jurisdiction of any government. No one else should be be obligated to support or fight for the ideology or actions or even the right to exist of a government they have effectively been assigned to by complete chance. It completely ignores the right of individuals to have their own systems of belief about what is morally correct.

For example, I am largely in agreement with Buddhist philosophy and only support violence under strict circumstances. I was born and currently live in the United States, and I would gladly go to prison or be executed over directly or indirectly being responsible for the suffering of others at the request of my government. Everything my country stands for is antithetical to my very strongly held beliefs about what is right, and I would proudly label myself a traitor. I believe that if you can't find enough volunteers to fight for a cause, then maybe that cause isn't actually worth shedding blood over.

As an Australian I have no interest in "defending" a country that's rampant with shit stain politcans, their oligarchs, along with their supporters and retinue.

Cumpolsory military service my sweet asshole.

It depends on how it's done.

First, there has to be a compensation. Generally speaking free college gets tied to it a lot. In the US a mandatory service isn't getting off the ground without it.

Second, there needs to be multiple avenues of service. It cannot just be military. To be honest, the military can't handle the number of conscripts. There's about half a million every year. So spreading that out into other service avenues such as a construction corps, EMTs, hospital helpers, legislative staff, libraries, etc, is required. (The specifics are obviously up for debate)

I do believe a mandatory service brings people together and strengthens a country. But it's just not possible for a large country like the US to do military only mandatory service.

Hmmm. I could support mandatory service, but not necessarily military service. An army of conscripts isn't a very good army; just look at Russia. OTOH, I think that, in general, a population that has some basic level of training so that they can be called up and quickly activated if the professional military needs more people isn't a terrible idea. On the other other hand, I think that people being conscripted to do public works and service is a pretty solid idea.

That said, I'd be much, much more supportive of a system where no one had citizenship--and I mean no one--without doing four years of service for their country first, in whatever capacity they were needed and capable of serving, whether that's some form of military service, or working in soup kitchens. E.g., unless you are willing to work for the country, you should not be able to vote -or- be elected, nor should you have absolute, unfettered free speech. IMO people need to be invested in some way in their country. Look at immigrants that have been naturalized; they're often far more serious about their citizenship and their responsibilities as citizens than people that were born and raised here. IMO we should aspire to have all citizens be as committed as those that have been naturalized.

EDIT - to be clear, I support a population being actively engaged in the politics of their locality, state, and country. Too many people are disengaged from news and politics, and that's a terrible thing.

As far as firearms training, my issue is that it's often used as a way to deny rights. E.g., make training mandatory to get a permit, but make training expensive, inconvenient to get to, at times that conflict with work schedules, etc., in order to discourage people from exercising their right. If training was offered on-demand, was free, and you didn't need to pass a test in order to be able to use your civil right, then sure. Like, the hunters' safety classes? You have to take the class, but you don't have to pass a test in order to be permitted to get a hunting license. (Or, you don't in my state. I've taken the class; most of it is pretty basic if you are already familiar with guns.) Any system that uses testing to determine if you can exercise a civil right will inevitably end up functioning like literacy tests did for voting rights.

Just imagine if instead of millitary service, it was compulsary public service that actually benefitted society. Nursing, construction/infrastructure, farming, teaching/childcare, etc.

Its astrounding how much money is pumped into the military industrial complex when it could be used to fund to many other programs for public good.

But that would be sOciALiSm.

I'd sooner go to prison

Conscription is slavery if the people are not under imminent threat.

Conscription will always be used as weapon of the rich against the poor.

Conscription will never affect the children of the rich as much as it affects the poor.

Conscription does demystify military service and can teach useful skills.

Balancing these and other factors is always the trick.

I'd prefer a voluntary military service in a society that strongly encourages people to sign up for short service periods and doesn't lock them in for years as an anti-abuse measure, as a training program for a more popular citizen militia defense scheme.

Suppose you live in a disputed region claimed by three different warlords. Would you have to serve triple the time, or would you be forced to pick a side?

I read a novel written by a Vietnam era draftee.

There was a scene where two draftees were talking about ending the draft. One was against it because it would mean that all the people in the Army would be 'lifers' and lifers were the ones who were quickest to massacre civilians.

Hunter Thompson wrote about it once. His opinion was that when he served, a lot of upper class families sent their sons to the Army. That meant that they were meeting and working with all types of people.

My personal take is that it's a good thing, if there's a non-military equivalent, something like FDR's CCC

Change "military" to "national" and I do, with appropriate exemptions for disabilities. There's usually something a person can do for public service, even if it's keeping a dying patient company.

Hunter safety is a gun safety class that under age kids can take to help build good habits when handling firearms. Maybe people could use those instead.

Fuck your military slave bullshit. Fuck it forever.

My response to the title: No

If I am being forced to, I will try to steer it towards any non-combant service like IT or (if necessary) social service.

"Fuck off"

I was one of the last people in Sweden to muster for conscription, I failed the first (hearing) test and was discharged.

This was just before conscription was ended, and about a decade later we have conscription again in Sweden.

There are two main advantages to universal conscription in my oppinion.

1. It gives the population unity, it is a unifying experience that you have in common with everyone, this creates a stronger society.
2. It gives the population a general understanding of guns and military action, this is useful in war as people are already familiar with the basic concepts of firearms handling and military tactics, ok, they won't be as good as professional soldiers, but they understand the concepts and that is a good foundation to build uppon.

Mandatory military service is the one case where accelerationism might possibly make sense. The fact that the military is made up of volunteers makes it harder to radicalize, and people are more willing to support war because, "The soldiers chose to be there." Go ahead, rip people away from the comfort of our homes, give us guns and training, and tell us we have to go risk our lives murdering brown people on the other side of the world in pointless conflicts in service of corporate interests - it's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.

I oppose the draft because I wouldn't want to subject myself or others to that. But at the same time, I dare them to try it.

Morally? Fuck that shit. But, being a Finn and sharing a huge border with Russia, I see why it is a thing here and in a lot of countries.

As for America, your military seems to have enough people in it, and the US hasn't needed to actually defend itself for a looooong time.

I'm all for mandatory military training. Deployment is a separate issue.

My opinion is fuck no.

It's a terrible idea. Isn't the military a strong enough institution in the US as it is? What right does the government have to rob years from the lives of their youth by having them go play soldier, especially in times of peace?

how if guns would be prevalent

hahahaha 'would' hahahhahhah. hilarious.

a huge contigent of domestic terrorism in the united states is ex-military white guys. also, a huge percentage of the homeless population are veterans.. it clearly leaves a psychological stain we then refuse to mop up. but yeah, lets push everyone through agencies with the worst sexual assault tallies in the country. awesome.

In Switzerland we do mandatory military service or public service if you don’t do the military.

Both are ok, I only know the military but it’s a good experience. At first you don’t really want to do it but then you have a lot of fun, drink tons of cheap beers and learn to shoot (skill that you have to maintain for several years with mandatory shooting sessions).

Overall it’s more of a school of life rather than military school. I knew people in the medics and they did jack shit. I was in DCA and did jack shit. Most people I talk to did dumb stuff and most of us have good and funny memories from that time.

Is this a useful military force? Probably not, but we are Switzerland so who cares?

In somw places it's more necessary than others. I don't think US would benefit from it, but here in Finland I'd rather keep it. I'd try to make civilian service more common choice than currently, though.

they were never deployed

You absolutely should not ever get deployed during mandatory service. That shit is not okay.

Nobody should be forced to be a war machine. If you want, you can encourage it, give it appealing perks, but ultimately the decision should be down to the individual if they want to spend a chunk of their life on that.