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Warning: the poll behind this article has false data because of biased question wording and order. See here for examples: https://lemmy.world/comment/14503824
What makes me sad is that everyone is focused on gaming the election. The question shouldn't be about what position on Gaza might have gotten Harris more votes. It should be about what Harris believed was the right policy. Not that I think that actually had much to do with it either.
We need to elect people who make decisions based on ethics and not on polls.
This is the same poll as was taken down last time. And the takeaways aren't being objectively discussed by Common Dreams or IMEU.
The swing states set Economy first, Gaza second. Gaza leads only if you include every state. And There's no real discussion of the negative side. How many voters would she lose in swing states for breaking with Biden's message? Particularly Pennsylvania, their must win state, which had the lowest support for Gaza.
I think we can realistically say Gaza is a big issue for Democrats but we already knew that from previous polling. I think we can also realistically say that the combination of her Gaza policy, Economic policy, and support for the most extreme immigration legislation in my lifetime, all contributed to her loss.
And now America is paying the price for a bunch of people who thought that they would somehow stop genocide abroad by enabling the man who wants genocide domestically.
Yeah, I don't know how to read this except "voters a fucking morons, obviously."
Nothing new there but it didn't stop Democratic candidates from doing what they needed to win elections in the past
Now now, he ALSO wants genocide abroad.
He always did.
Precisely. Harris enabled her opponent to win by having a weak stance on Israel. She handed him the keys to the White House, as the article clearly describes, by not standing up and speaking out against genocide.
I'm sorry, but putting the entirety of the blame on Harris when there were plenty of people who didn't care whether or not a rapist fascist dictator got into power and plenty of others specifically telling people not to vote for Harris is ludicrous.
There is so much blame to go around and people like you who just blame Harris now make me think that you were part of the group telling people to absolutely not vote for Harris no matter what. People like you are why I have to flee for my daughter's safety.
Are you that dense? You’re literally trying to blame voters for Kamala’s support of genocide.
You get a big nope. Nope out of here with that noise.
I am doing no such thing and that's a ridiculous lie to tell.
That’s literally what you’re doing. Candidates are not entitled to votes.
Correct, candidates are not entitled to votes, but I dont know what voting system your fantasy world uses.
Lets ignore parties for a moment and just say you have two people running that are different degrees of evil. I would argue a failure to vote for the lesser evil is to abide the greater evil (does this make you evil?). In this case, abstaining or apathy itself is also a choice, and would be cosidered evil because you did not act against the greater evil.
Lets add a more realistic third candidate in and demonstrate the spoiler effect. Where there is an idealogical divide, the side with the fewer candidates wins. If a third party throws their hat into the ring, they end up encroching on support held by their idealogical peers, effectivly handing the win to their oppsition by simply existing.
Combining both of these observations looks an awful lot like the electoral college and the US voting system. Neither major party is willing to allow a third party to exist in their space, because if they do they lose by spoiler effect and forces people to strategicly vote instead of standing by their ideals. The solution is getting rid of first-past-the-post and moving to a ranked choice or instant run-off system similar to the ones found in the EU, this would allow people to put their ideal candidate first without jepordizing their idealogical peers. Until such a time when that is a reality, being a protest voter/non-voter is making a choice against your own self interests and the interests of those you care for.
Living in a blue state, I chose not to vote for Harris, I understand what I was doing. Harris got all of my state’s electoral college votes and I did not vote for her or Trump. I also chose not to vote for any senators or reps who receive aipac money, but I also live in a blue county in a blue state….
Oh, okay. Well you know Flying Squid better than I do because I didn't think he even implied that candidates were entitled to votes.
Please continue and tell me more about this Flying Squid fellow because I really thought I could get inside his head and figure out what he was thinking.
Good luck with that, as of now he seems to have multiple personality disorder, but I’m no doctor 🤷♂️
You're certainly not because that is not a recognized psychological disorder, but the issue here is that I thought I was Flying Squid, but you're telling me Flying Squid is saying things that I definitely did not in any way even imply.
So who am I?
By the way, can you please quote where Flying Squid said a candidate is entitled to votes? Because I've read everything Flying Squid has said in this thread and I have yet to find it.
(This is where you refuse to quote what you claim was said if this plays out how these things normally do.)
Edit: called it.
You pretty much implied it, I’m sorry if you can’t see the connection you yourself implied but maybe see that others in the thread also see and recognize the implications your statement made
Oh look, you're back without a quote.
Fine, please quote the person you are claiming is me implying it.
You've literally already had a day. How many more days is it going to take? Because just admitting what you said is a lie isn't going to happen so I'm really interested to see if you're going to keep stretching this out or you're going to give up.
Anyway man I’m not going to argue with you about this I see you around on Lemmy and I agree with most of what you speak to…. Not gonna worry about this but we do need to stop blaming voters and blame the dnc
Didn't Trump suggest nuking Palestine? No matter what these people say, it all just sounds like they were looking for any excuse to support Baby Huey while feeling better about themselves for doing so. If it wasn't Palestine, it would've been something else.
You won't have a hard time arguing that Donald Trump is a massive piece of garbage, but your comment presumes that Kamala Harris and the Democratic party are entitled to votes.
You'll find there is a large portion of the Democratic base who are not motivated to vote for a pro-genocide candidate, which is exactly the entire point of this poll. The Democratic party needs to do better and stop fighting against the progressive wing of the party if they ever want to regain the trust of working class people. At a bare minimum you would expect them to respect international law.
Then again, they're doing exactly what AIPAC and defense industry paid them to do, same as the Republicans.
Not only was she pro-genocide, but also an anti-immigration, pro-corporate, pro-police, and "maintain the status quo" candidate. I don't know a single measure that one could use to make her seem left-wing.
The DNC did the same with Biden and Clinton and nearly lost both of those times too. It's almost as if they want the Republicans to control everything if it means they don't have to actually advance leftist policy that is good for the country. Even Obama's crowning achievement was a Republican drafted healthcare plan that cemented the private medical insurance model into law.
My comment presumes her opponent was a rapist fascist dictator. But that wasn't enough for Americans.
And the Democratic Party isn't going to do better because it will only exist in name only from now on. You and others got what you wanted. Now you're going to have to live with the consequences. If you live.
As someone who voted for her, if you could stop blaming others for having strong feelings regarding who they give their vote, that'd be very chill. At this point I am pretty comfortable telling you that you're causing more division and strife than you are helping. And, as far as I last understood, you're out of here, right? If you could do me a favor and stop demotivating those of us trying to stick it out and fix it, I'd take it as a kindness.
You know what I would have taken as a kindness? Not having a bunch of queerphobic bigots get put into power.
No, sorry, I won't stop giving my opinion about the mistake America has made that has forced me to drop my entire life and pack everything into a couple of suitcases so that I can ensure my daughter is not taken away from me so that you can feel more motivated.
Abso-fucking-lutely not. My life has been destroyed by this. I will never see my elderly mother in person again. So you and anyone else who want me to shut up about the dire mistake America made are just out of luck. It will not happen.
(Gotta wonder if you would tell a refugee from another country where they had to flee to shut up about it because they were causing divisions back there.)
I just want to preface this that as a trans person I totally understand your fears and agree they are completely valid - however I also want to make you aware of your relative privilege (being able to pack up and leave the US) - compared to almost all Palestinians that cannot do the same on top of also not being able to see their parents - not because of immigration but because they've been blown up by American bombs.
I just want to point out that by blaming voters for not compromising on their values around human rights (instead of blaming the DNC for enabling genocide) - you're showcasing that you personally care more about your child's domestic rights being threatened than Palestinian children being killed - yes both are atrocious but I would hope that you can see how being killed right now should take precedence over likely (but avoidable) suffering down the line.
Instead you're saying that your daughter's safety is more important than middle eastern children dying (which for you personally is valid) - but you can't claim that everyone else should care about your child's potential struggles in the future vs other's children's deaths right now.
I just hope you will now become more understanding of the Palestinian struggle (as a refugee yourself) and will fight for the DNC to recognize both your rights and theirs as you now more viscerally understand how you're both in the same boat.
Excuse me? How the fuck much more understanding do you want me to be? I've written hundreds of letters and made dozens of phone calls on behalf of JVP to try to stop American politicians from supporting Israel. Literally hours and hours of my time.
What the fuck have you done other than berate people on the internet for not caring as much as you do?
This doesn't need to turn into a pissing contest as I see you care about the Palestinian cause.
I too have spent countless hours protesting on the ground, being threatened and followed by police, helping comrades deal with the abysmal legal system and some other things I don't feel comfortable admitting on a public forum - but I don't see this as justification to blame others for the voting choices they've made - I've used my privilege to help as much as I can - not because that allows me to "berate people on the internet for not caring as much" but because it's the only thing that helps me sleep at night.
I'm glad you're involved in the cause - I just wanted to highlight how we should have class solidarity against the ruling class and not divide ourselves based on who's not voted for whom as if that's what makes it or breaks it.
I mean at least for now he seems to have followed up on that particular promise.
I think, in general, it was more apathy. I know too many people with the kind of narrow world view that makes them not see the difference between the two parties. All they see the slow slide into a capitalist dystopia and they just check out. 7 million less votes can’t be pinned on one issue. It was a hundred issues that haven’t changed in forty years.
And honestly, that’s the brilliance of the GOP's insanity. They’ve driven down engagement. Then everything about the Post-Truth Era has reinforced that. This is especially true of the positive aspects of Biden's administration.
I generally agree with you, and I would also add that the DNC has been happy to go along with the Republican party to advance corporate interests.
It's not like we didn't know a lot of the tactics that the Republican party has employed for the last 30 years. These aren't giant secrets, and they could be combated, except most Washington Democrats don't want to, presumably because their corporate backers don't want to.
We need progressive representation. Maybe the DNC will clue in ... Eventually. But it would be even better if independent candidates were not eliminated by the two big parties.
I’m skeptical. Too many are wrapped up in the money. They aren’t getting lavish gifts, paid trips, and cushy jobs after their stints in power by having grassroots campaigns or working for the people.
This poll is a joke. Less than 500 people. Clickbait crap.
The cross tabs are right there. 1078 people were polled. The poll looks fine. The articles are sensational.