this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2025
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

There will be a new announcement soon to clarify.

~~Communities should not be overly moderated in order to enforce a specific narrative. Respectful disagreement should be allowed in a smaller proportion to the established narrative.~~

~~Humans are naturally inclined to believe a single narrative when they're only presented with a single narrative. That's the basis of how fiction works. You can't tell someone a story if they're questioning every paragraph. However, a well placed sentence questioning that narrative gives the reader the option to chose. They're no longer in a story being told by one author, and they're free to choose the narrative that makes sense to them, even if one narrative is being pushed much more heavily than the other.~~

~~Unfortunately, some malicious actors are hijacking this natural tendency to be invested in fiction, and they're using it to create absurd, cult-like trends in non-fiction. They're using this for various nefarious ends, to turn us against each other, to generate profit, and to affect politics both domestically and internationally.~~

~~In a fully anonymous social media platform, we can't counter this fully. But we can prune some of the most egregious echo chambers.~~

~~We're aware that this policy is going to be subjective. It won't be popular in all instances. We're going to allow some "flat earth" comments. We're going to force some moderators to accept some "flat earth" comments. The point of this is that you should be able to counter those comments with words, and not need moderation/admin tools to do so. One sentence that doesn't jive with the overall narrative should be easily countered or ignored~~.

~~It's harder to just dismiss that comment if it's interrupting your fictional story that's pretending to be real. "The moon is upside down in Australia" does a whole lot more damage to the flat earth argument than "Nobody has crossed the ice wall" does to the truth. The purpose of allowing both of these is to help everyone get a little closer to reality and avoid incubating extreme cult-like behavior online.~~

~~A user should be able to (respectfully, infrequently) post/comment about a study showing marijuana is a gateway drug to !marijuana without moderation tools being used to censor that content.~~

~~Of course this isn't about marijuana. There's a small handful of self-selected moderators who are very transparently looking to push their particular narrative. And they don't want to allow discussion. They want to function as propaganda and an incubator. Our goal is to allow a few pinholes of light into the Truman show they wish to create. When those users' pinholes are systematically shut down, we as admins can directly fix the issue.~~

~~We don't expect this policy to be perfect. Admins are not aware of everything that happens on our instances and don't expect to be. This is a tool that allows us to trim the most extreme of our communities and guide them to something more reasonable. This policy is the board that we point to when we see something obscene on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com so that we can actually do something about it without being too authoritarian ourselves. We want to enable our users to counter the absolute BS, and be able to step in when self-selected moderators silence those reasonable people.~~

~~Some communities will receive an immediate notice with a link to this new policy. The most egregious communities will comply, or their moderators will be removed from those communities.~~

~~Moderators, if someone is responding to many root comments in every thread, that's not "in a smaller proportion" and you're free to do what you like about that. If their "counter" narrative posts are making up half of the posts to your community, you're free to address that. If they're belligerent or rude, of course you know what to do. If they're just saying something you don't like, respectfully, and they're not spamming it, use your words instead of your moderation abilities.~~

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

@Serinus@lemmy.world this post seems relevant as to what people are afraid of. I am glad that the admin team is taking time to reword this policy to make more clear what is meant:-).

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Is this a piefed thing I'm too Lemmy to understand?

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hello,

Any idea when the new announcement will be made?

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

once it's ready.

this post didn't follow our usual process for announcements/changes and lately there have been several other events that required a lot of our attention as well.

we'd love to have posted an update on this topic a week ago already but we haven't finished that within the team yet.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Here is the link to the post from Lemmy.World directly:-)

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't understand what you're trying to say or why. I'm generally not clicking random youtube videos.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 43 minutes ago (1 children)

Innuendo Studios has several fantastic videos - I dare say just about the main thing I even highly care about on YouTube these days, even though there are so very few of them. The Alt Right Playbook in particular is a wonderful series. This latest one seems so very highly related to the subject matter of this post, where extremists bury reasonable people behind an avalanche of false statements, each one of which must be rebutted properly, despite how the statements themselves did not have such care and attention put into them.

Side-note: I love how PieFed and Tesseract both provide YouTube previews to help decide whether to click or not - speaking for myself it helps me decide!:-)

Anyway, I'm sure you know all about the subject matter, but the language used in this linked video (or just search for Alt-Right Playbook and choose the latest one) I thought might be particularly helpful to have watched in drafting the next response of this announcement. The flat earth bit especially is off-putting to people bc it conjures up the vaccine disinformation issue that genuinely cost people's literal, actual lives. Though I didn't take from the announcement that this has suddenly become a place where such dis/misinformation was "welcomed", and yet people reacted as if that is what it was saying... so I hoped the video would help bridge that gap between what was intended to be conveyed vs. was managed to be received by some, who seem to just be so very scared and anxious about so many things beyond ~~their~~ our control these days.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 1 points 11 minutes ago

I'll take a look. And yeah, the intention was the opposite, to poke pinholes into those crazy, reality-denying philosophies.

[–] simple@lemm.ee 35 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

We’re going to allow some “flat earth” comments. We’re going to force some moderators to accept some “flat earth” comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

So basically you're saying people should be allowed to post blatant false information and everybody should try their best to tell them they're wrong rather than doing the sensible thing of stopping false information spreading in the first place.

People who would post that stuff would never argue with good intentions and would often argue in bad faith. What you're suggesting trolling should be allowed, moderators and community members need to waste their time engaging with controversial content nobody wants to see, and threads will have even more people fighting in them. Who decides when wrong info and propaganda posts are allowed to be removed? LW admins? You won't be able to keep up and are guaranteed to incite distrust in your community either way.

I'm with reducing echo chambers and taking action on bad moderators that abuse their positions, but making the blanket statement that basically translates to "flat earthers are now welcome here whether you like it or not, get ready to see posts unironically arguing about why flat earth is right in your feed" surely can ring some bells on why this is a bad idea.

This is like the third time LW tried to be front-and-center in deciding how conversations should happen on Lemmy. You are the most popular Lemmy instance and most content is on your instance. This isn't an experimental safe space instance to dictate how social media should work. Please understand that any weirdly aggressive stances you take affects everyone.

[–] DxK@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Elon, Zuckerberg, whatever weirdos run Lemmy.world. The toadies are all lining up for Trump’s new world order, huh? Way to highlight the potential weak points of the fediverse when a server’s admins decide to jump on the big tech trend of forcing mods and users to accept disinformation cluttering their feed as if it’s equal to facts so long as it’s written politely. At least we know who’s the asshole at those companies. You sycophants are faceless.

This is my last post on this username. And I’ll never subscribe to another Lemmy.world community again. This server can no longer be trusted. At this point you people might as well just make spez an admin. Your administrative goals are in sync. Even your jargon like “respectful dissent™” is just a repackaging of Reddit’s “valuable discussion™“ excuse for allowing disinformation on their platform.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago

Having left Lemmy world myself, the communities aren't at fault. Hopefully people will find a better instance. There are quite a few out there.

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[–] Krudler@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

Straight up bullshit and a completely half-baked, ill-considered, ill-conceived idea. Completely disconnected from reality.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 25 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Do these "flat earth" opinions that we're meant to treat with unearned respect include bigoted opinions? Because this is dangerously close to being a "don't sass the nazis" policy.

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[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Please do not enshittify please do not enshittify please do not enshittify... Oh well too late

[–] Arelin@lemmy.zip 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Just move to a better instance lol, wasn't that the entire point of coming here? Lemmy.zip and Lemm.ee have been great.

[–] Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 days ago

Lemmy.zip is truly awesome

[–] imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee 15 points 6 days ago

What a real Steve Huffman post. Really impressive.

[–] Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Let’s say every community allows one lunatic post. It’s downvoted to hell and thoroughly refuted in the comments.

Every time someone tries to say the same thing again under a different post, the comment gets a reply “[lunatic opinion] was refuted under [lunatic post link] - you may comment there” and then the stray lunatic comment is removed. Only the reply stays to inform other lunatics. Other comments saying the same lunatic opinion again are removed, because the canonical reply linking the canonical lunatic post is already in the comments. All discussion about the lunatic opinion will be contained under the canonical lunatic post.

Would this work?

[–] imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee 2 points 4 days ago

If that would work they wouldn't have those opinions to begin with, they always think they have a unique smarter interpretation of the truth and facts and largely enjoy arguing about their alternative facts so they can feel superior more than they care about the shape of the earth for how much it'll affect their lives

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 days ago

Classic .world admins showing their constant incompetence

nice

[–] leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 6 days ago

Well, hopefully this will finally get saner instances to deferate .world as the disinformation hub it's now openly admitting to intentionally be (and has always been, see the misinformation bot debacle for a previous example), so that's good for lemmy as a whole, I suppose, in the long term (once .world communities have moved to other instances).

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 9 points 6 days ago

“The moon is upside down in Australia”

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