this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)

Memes

46115 readers
203 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (19 children)

The use of the word "tankie" these days is so over-used it has become synonymous with "left of the DNC." I even saw someone elsewhere describe Zionists suppprting the "Kibbutz" system in Israel as "tankies," and Marxists despise Zionism.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's both overused in the way you describe and yet obscure enough that only terminally-online political people have even heard of it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

Yep, it's a deeply unserious term. It's only used unironically, in my experience, by people who haven't read theory yet devote a huge chunk of time to debating online, which is largely a waste of time to begin with. That's why I focus on just trying to correct misconceptions and provide my reading list when appropriate, debating is just an outlet for frustration for most people.

[–] FrostyTrichs@walledgarden.xyz 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Back when I used reddit it seemed like everyone threw around Fascist in a similar way. Lemmy seems to prefer Tankie. For a lot of people the thinking doesn't go any farther than "I disagree with you, therefore you are ________ist" or whatever.

It is what it is.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It varies from instance to instance. The main users of the word "tankie" are blahaj.zone, lemmy.world, and sh.itjust.works from what I've seen, most other instances generally aren't as bad about it IMO.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] anachronist@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Probably because there are a lot of tankies here. 🙃

[–] somename@hexbear.net 0 points 2 months ago

I do love tanks.

[–] What_Religion_R_They@hexbear.net 0 points 2 months ago

but I- oh wait I do have an opinion on Soviet use of tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring uprising. My bad, continue.

[–] Idreamofcheesy@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Yep, and unfortunately a lot of fascists on Reddit.

I do like how whenever a conservative Lemmy pops up, it has more trolls than users and the mods abandon it within a few weeks.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Whopraysforthedevil@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As I said in another comment, Tankies are often in support of the modern Russian state and the modern CCP. These are not positions that are "left of the DNC".

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Supporting the CPC is absolutely a Leftist position, as a Socialist country and a rising superpower it's the current best hope for Socialism, whether you agree with all of the PRC's actions or only some.

Critical, reserved support for Russia's temporary and strategic anti-US Hegemony stance does not mean Leftists critically supporting Russia agree with the Russian state or support it.

[–] Whopraysforthedevil@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Support for Russia's genocidal invasion of Ukraine in no way supports anti-US hegemony stances. They're literally stealing children and indoctrinating them-the same thing the US did while committing genocide against the First Peoples.

Just opposing the US doesn't make Russia the good guys.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't "genocidal," what would be closer to genocidal is the West's intention to fight Russia to the last Ukranian standing. Several times, Russia has tried to reach a peace deal, only for the UK and US to step in and tell Ukraine not to take it. The "stealing of children" is taking orphans from warzones and making sure they don't die.

Russia's goal isn't to ethnically cleanse Ukraine, nor is it to "de-Nazify" Ukraine. Russia's goal is to totally ruin Ukraine's military capabilities as a means to prevent further extension of NATO encirclement around it's borders.

No, Russia are not the "good guys." No Communist believes Russia has morally just intentions and is here to save everyone. Communists believe Russia is acting in its own material interests, and those interests happen to align against US-Hegemony, which Communists see as the primary block for progress.

Communists have as such advocated for both countries to negotiate a cease-fire since the beginning of the invasion.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

nor is it to "de-Nazify" Ukraine

I think they do want to do this, since the Nazis are extremely hostile to Russia, so it's crushing the opposition. Obviously this is pretty different from the historical de-Nazification efforts whose corpse Putin cynically puppets as cover for his actions.

If there are meaningful factions of Greater Russia Nazis in Ukraine, he'd obviously be fine with those as he is fine with them in Russia.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

Sure, there is some element to that, but the mover and pusher is a removal of threats, not out of any anti-fascist dedication, hence why like you said Putin is fine with "Greater Russia" Nazis.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] tkk13909@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding but are you in support of the CCP?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Generally yes, I support the CPC. I'm a Marxist, and their dedication to developing Socialism, eliminating poverty, developing green energy, and presenting an alternative for the Global South should be admired. The PRC and CPC aren't perfect, not by any stretch, but among the major world powers they are the least problematic and present the greatest potential for Humanity moving forward.

[–] tkk13909@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I cannot take you seriously if you think the CCP is anything other than an authoritarian spy-state

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Emotional@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago (9 children)

I, for one, haven't seen people over-using the word "tankie", I haven't seen people getting called tankies for the reason alone that they are leftists or even communists.

However, I've seen many tankies insisting that the word is meaningless or that it just means anybody on the left.

People I've seen using the word tankie have been surprisingly consistent about who they call a tankie: supporters of authoritarianism, especially Putin and the CCP.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (25 children)

thank you for that and the "what is socialism" post; but i'm encountering that theory is somehow still HEAVY read for someone like who me has been inside the leftist sphere of influence for his entire life; there's needs to be some sort of sound-bite-able way of sharing these messages and i wish that ml's had the capitalists' deep pockets that guarantees a deep bench of talent that could figure something like this out.

it reminds of my own own experience of going from technical support to software engineering by simply reading. your ignorance makes it daunting as first and you have to put in A LOT of effort to understand it when you don't even know the basics and you'll get there eventually if you stick with it; but most won't stick with it and if you're REALLY knowledgeable at it, it becomes difficult to understand why it's difficult for other people.

load more comments (25 replies)
load more comments (14 replies)
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

If you don't have an opinion on it, you might when you learn the fascists were putting chalk marks on the doors of communists and jews

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I thought tankie was for any government that used tanks on their own people? So many others should be included, China is missing, I think the Phillipines maybe? There's more. I'm open to being corrected.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (7 children)

The word "tankie" originated as the OP describes, referring to members of the Communist Party of Great Britain that supported the USSR putting down the color revolutions in Hungary and Prague Spring. Nowadays, it is used as a catch-all pejorative for anyone to the left of the DNC.

[–] Whopraysforthedevil@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's not entirely accurate. I'm sure some use it that way, but it's not "left of the DNC" to support the modern Russian state and its actions, which is the problem most people have with Tankies.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

The word "tankie" isn't solely applied to people who critically support Russia in its temporary anti-US Hegemony stance. Again, the lack of unity behind the usage of the term means some may use it in a more reserved and restricted manner, but in reality it is used by liberals of all stripes against leftists of all stripes.

[–] anachronist@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Somehow supporting colonial aggression by a totalitarian state is a left cause.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Unsure what you're referring to, specifically, moreover the use of the word "totalitarian" betrays a lack of understanding how the USSR functioned in reality.

[–] anachronist@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Not talking about the USSR there skipper.

You keep saying that people are called "tankie" for being "left of the DNC" but the only people I see being called "tankie" are folks who think a lot more people aught to be dying from polonium poisoning.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

So, nobody? You really don't see anyone being called a tankie? Interesting.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

nowadays tankie just means someone who shills for china/russia with a communist background

[–] Crikeste@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It’s not shilling, it’s nuance. American main stream thinking is full of lies about both China and Russia. And both conservatives and liberals HATE when people don’t fall in line.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Communists support the PRC as a Socialist state run by Marxist-Leninists, yes. No Communist supports the Russian Federation outright, however, only reserved, temporary, and highly critical support for Russia's anti-US Hegemony stance, which it only adopts for its own survival and not out of any moral superiority. No Communist "shills" for the Russian Federation.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 months ago (63 children)

If China is a socialist state worth supporting then I'm a donkey with a laser dick :P But I'm more anarchistically inclined so different perspective.

I see your point though. What I'm saying is not that communist = tankie, on the contrary. I'm saying that tankies claim to be communists but spend all day parroting their favorite Russian or Chinese state propaganda because they believe everything else is clearly controlled by Obamna™ himself. They rarely actually talk about communism, they just roam Lemmy all day calling everybody who disagrees with them a liberal :D

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (44 children)

I'm curious, where do you think so many westerners are exposed to Russian propaganda? Because there are apparently so many victims of it these days, can't turn a corner without someone decrying all these damn Russian and Chinese shill everywhere. So where do we all come from? What exactly did we get exposed to? I know this is the part where you handwave the question away with a "Heh, they got exposed to devious foreign thought on the freaking internetsmuglord" but I'm not letting you off that easy. Tell me what you think the actual specific vectors are for all this "Russian and Chinese propaganda" you see everywhere, and how it was apparently able to easily penetrate the absolute haze of American propaganda that all of us in "the west" have been force fed our entire lives.

Please account for this gaping hole in your social theory. Why so many tankies, how, and why only now?

load more comments (44 replies)
load more comments (62 replies)
[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Or someone who slightly disagrees with a republican

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

Let's bracket the "was the USSR in the right?" question, and let's ask the "how brutal was the Soviet clampdown on these two uprisings?"

  • 1956 Hungary: 2000-3000 killed by the USSR
  • 1968 Prague: 137 killed by the USSR

How does this compare to clampdowns by NATO countries (excluding the US)?

  • Indonesian National Revolution against the Dutch: 100 000 Indonesians killed by the Dutch

  • Algerian War of Independence: 250 000 killed by the French (French estimate) - 1.5 Million (Algerian estimate)

  • French War against Vietnamese Independence: 200 000 dead

  • Portuguese Colonial Wars: 70,000–110,000 civilians killed by Portugal

  • Mau Mau Uprising against the UK: "Officially the number of Mau Mau and other rebels killed was 11,000, including 1,090 convicts hanged by the British administration. The Kenya Human Rights Commission has said 90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed during the crackdown, and 160,000 were detained in appalling conditions. "

This is a non-exhaustive list with estimates. That actual brutality is not conveyed. The war crimes are often comparable to the Waffen SS.
You get the idea: the colonial powers were incomparably worse. us-foreign-policy

[–] idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

While your points are true, here is an interesting and recommended reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (8 children)

this is the most appropriate "both sides" argument i've ever seen.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

"Yes, the USSR performed atrocities, but the fact that the west has as well excuses that."

It's not like those are the only two instances of human rights violations by the USSR, and they're infamous for lying about numbers.

Misery is not s competition. You don't have to pick sides. There can be more than one violent authoritarian regime in the world, they can all be bad, and you can oppose all of them. There's really no reason to defend any imperial powers.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

Deeply unserious and reactionary reply. Accomplished with signature feigned stupidity to fully sidestep the point being made.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I actually support the side which is magnitudes less violent. And there is a difference between killing fascists like the Soviets did and killing anti-colonial freedom fighters but mostly civilians like the colonial powers did.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›