this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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[–] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

Yes, we have decades between (direct involvement in) wars!!
We didn't even spend actual money on war stuff the last few decades.

But we sure are gonna do it now, we need to protect our drinking water (for the coming water wars) and update our firewalls (for the coming Skynet wars).

[–] lulztard@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

All the nazi-voting retards don't, however.

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)
[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Everyone in Europe killing each other every generation predates capitalism. Capitalism did increase the scale though; after the fall of the western roman empire, we didn't see armies of that size until Napoleon managed to draft a million men in a country of 30 million.

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

Perhaps you would prefer "the ruling class"?

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Lmfao, sorry (not sorry), I should have included feudalists too I guess, to avoid bootlicking pedants.. 🙄

The point stands - war is waged for profit by profiteers, not by random civilians trying to live their lives, always was, always will be.

[–] bouh@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

One exception to it : fascists managed to convince people who can only lose stuff to a war that it's good for them too.

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

One exception to it : ~~fascists~~ capitalists managed to convince people who can only lose stuff to a war that it’s good for them too.

Fascism is capitalism in decay, there is no exception.

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[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

don't worry, the soviets joined ww2 as well

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Lol, you mean the state capitalists? You're not making the (weak, "whatabout") point you think you are, but hey, your confidence in your wilful ignorance in defence of those exploiting you for profit* is almost impressive! (but not really) 🙄😂

*E: and guess what, I don't even need to know where you live to say this, because every working class person on the planet is currently being exploited for profit through both labour and war, but don't let that get in the way of the bootlicking you've come here to do in self-destructive defence of your beloved capitalism (I threw up in my mouth a little)...

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Calling something state capitalist when capitalism heavily relies on the state by default shows you need to hit the books on how capitalism actually functions.

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Calling something that was never stateless, classless, and moneyless communism, shows you need to hit the books on how communism is actually intended to function.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

I didn't call it communism, and neither did the ruling communist parties. Transitional socialism is the proper word.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

The USSR never pretended it was Stateless, Classless, or Moneyless.

You have no clue what you're talking about, how Communism is "supposed" to function, how Marx, Engels, Lenin, and so forth believed it to come into function, or how the USSR functioned.

If you want basics on how the USSR functioned, I can recommend some books, or if you want a basic intro of Marxism I can recommend some works as well.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

He already said capitalists, state capitalism is still capitalism, no matter if you call it communism.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Calling something state capitalist when capitalism heavily relies on the state by default shows you need to hit the books on how capitalism actually functions.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Calling something state capitalist when capitalism heavily relies on the state by default

I have no idea what you are trying to say with this, but perhaps you should look things up before pompously trying to diss people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Perhaps you should read theory. The USSR was State Capitalist with respect to the NEP, but was Socialist for its entire existence

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I can only read 2 pages from what you linked, and am not paying 40 dollars to read the rest, certainly not when they already display a gross oversimplification and anti-Marxist definition of Capitalism (critically leaving out competition, Capital accumulation, and so forth), and therefore take a vulgar revisionist stance. There's no analysis of class dynamics, just an over-reliance on the presense of Wage Labor.

Please read theory, I can make recommendations for the basics if you'd like.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The USSR was Socialist, what on Earth are you talking about?

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

and North Korea is democratic, it's in the name after all.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

When did I say names determine structures? Even then, the DPRK is fairly democratic in actuality.

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[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

If by "joined WW2", do you mean "got refused from any military alliances with England, France and Poland despite a decade of trying in an attempt to unify Europe against Hitler"? Or do you mean "getting invaded by the Nazis and losing 25+mn people in the process of eliminating Nazism from Europe"?

[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I mean invading poland side by side with the nazis, they weren't interested in getting rid of the nazis, why do you think they had a nap?

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[–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You missed the part in between where they made a deal with the nazis and invaded eastern Europe

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

You missed the part in between where they made a deal with the nazis

I didn't miss that part because there was no "deal with Nazis". Nothing as bad as the Munich Agreement signed the previous year by England, France and Germany among others, allowing Hitler to occupy the Sudetenland, a land with more than 3mn people in Czechoslovakia (to whom the Soviet Union offered assistance but Romania and Poland denied pass to Soviet troops, possibly influenced by the fact that Poland also did a grab of land of Czechoslovakia). The USSR spent the entire 30s trying to push for a military alliance with England, France and Poland to stop Nazism, but they all refused because a good liberal would rather have Nazis first exterminate communists. Stalin went as far as offering to station 1 million troops, together with aviation and artillery, in France, in case Stalin invaded, to which England and France refused. Feel free to study the so-called "collective security policy" pushed by the USSR in Europe against Nazism.

The Soviet Union had been in a civil war until 1921 (right after a devastating WW1/, and before that it was a preindustrial nation. It had a whopping 19 years to rebuild the country from scratch and to industrialise, compared to the 100+ years of German industrialization. They desperately needed every single year of industrialization they could get in order to gain some advantage against the industrially superior Nazis, as evidenced by the 25+ million casualties the USSR suffered against the Nazis despite material help from the US. Making an agreement to postpone the war after every country in Europe refuses to enter a military alliance against Nazis just because you're a communist country, is just the logical action to defend your citizens.

Please stop pushing revisionist nazi propaganda. Without the USSR, the slavic population of Europe, including Polish, Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian, as well as many other ethnic groups, would have been genocided in vastly superior numbers than they were.

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

but Romania and Poland denied pass to Soviet troops

I thought Romania did?

"Rumania had agreed to permit Russian troops to pass through her territory to the assistance of Czechoslovakia as soon as the League of Nations had pronounced Czechoslovakia to be a victim of aggression" - Munich, Prologue to Tragedy by John W. Wheeler-Bennet, p. 100

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Sorry, I was going with Wikipedia there, care to elaborate more on what happened then?

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[–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So you are straight up denying the existence of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

No, I'm denying your framing of it

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

Yep, and beat the Nazis.

[–] ignotum@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (7 children)

American students every couple weeks

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[–] I_Clean_Here@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This period of peace in Western Europe is pretty special and I would like to keep it that way, thx

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This period of peace in Western Europe

France: "We haven't gone to war with Germany in decades!"

Me: "What about Libya?"

France: ...

Me: "Algeria? Argentina? Rwanda? The Ivory Coast? Somalia? Chad? Basque Country? Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia?"

France: sound of FAMAS F1 cocking

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[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's because the EU was created with the purpose of making an interconnected market where going to war is simply way too costly.

As the other commenter said, there is a war in Europe though.

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[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

This period of war in Eastern Europe is pretty shit and I would like Western Europe to take it more seriously, thx

[–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So you're saying we should invade Poland?

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[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago

Don't worry, western Europe is doing its thing. It's electing fascists like Putin to create even more such wars. It's the preferred alternative to Socialism for neoliberals, conservatives and social-democrats anyway

[–] Funkytom467@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Western Europe getting involved could be so much worse.

Let's remind ourselves you fight for your country, we on the other hand have nuclear weapons and rising fascism all over...

So in account of humanity thanks for keeping Russia's shit out.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

FYI, I'm not Ukrainian. I'm Romanian. We have more skin in the game than Germany or France though. If Ukraine falls, Moldova falls 24 hours later, and allowing our brother country to go back under Russian domination is pretty unthinkable.

Even without that existential issue, allowing democratically minded Europeans trying to walk the same path we walked 25 years ago get invaded by Russia without as much help as we can give them seems horrific to me.

[–] Funkytom467@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

To be clear i agree.

I do feel for the Russian people that will suffer Putin's decisions, but i personally wouldn't concede one bit of Ukrainian soil to that fucker.

I wish my country was helping. That said, as a French without any skin in the game, let me tell you we don't even have skin in our own games. (If you followed any news of us you know)

It's not like any of us are ever being asked what to do. And I do genuinely fear our so called democracies are gonna implode. And when they do, diplomacy with Russia will get bad for everyone.

[–] Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 month ago

By recognizing it's not winnable without full-scale NATO mobilization and therefore we should stop sabotaging peace talks and just get a deal done so we can stop throwing Ukranian men into the meat grinder?

[–] MigratingApe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago
[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's "Europe every couple of decades", you semi-literate gaping baboon

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[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 0 points 1 month ago

in the US we call that 9th grade

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