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NATO should have been dissolved with the Warsaw Pact. Its nothing more that the European arm of US imperialism
Good thing it wasn’t as Putin has shown Russia is still a threat to innocent nations who aren’t protected by NATO membership.
NATO has already told Ukraine they will not get NATO membership because they are too corrupt. The exact same rhetoric that every nation on Earth called Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.
Gee, I wonder if there were any major shake-ups in the Ukrainian government circa 2014 that could have explained this change in tune.
Ukraine wasn't able to join NATO because of active territorial disputes regarding Russia's 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2022 invasion and intervening Russian-backed fighting in Donestk and Luhansk were naked imperial land grabs trying to force Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of influence despite their democratic processes repeatedly trying to move towards the EU.
Or in simpler terms, imperialism is actually still bad when Russia does it and it's weird that you don't seem to understand that.
democratic processes
"Democracic processes," you mean seizing power through force in a coup and then banning major opposition parties.
HERE COME THE FUCKING TANKIES
Without tankies this place wouldnt exist, so yea we are gonna be here
Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don't want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.
...which is basically enabling imperialism.
It's wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, "Yeah, I trust them to have the people's best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict."
Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn't.
I know, you americans are really good at "doing your own research".
Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.
Also we're talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.
I'm not talking about JD Vance. I'm talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies "we want peace and deescalation" when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.
But again, you're a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.
Can't think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn't claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said "Either we fight them over there or we'll have to fight them here," and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I'm not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn't go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they'd keep expanding all over and eventually we'd be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I'm just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.
I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.
I always thought that "we want peace" and "stop the war" people were always the biggest morons alive. At least the people who support russian terrorism own up to it. They are intentionally evil.
After watching so many events unfold, Ukraine getting annexed, women and children raped, children separated from their parents and deported, Bucha massacred, schools and hospitals bombed, for no reason other than imperialsm, you dare to 'both sides bad' this.
From the bottom of my heart, fuck you.
So, now when Ukraine is annexed, etc., you're advocating for "stopping war". Which, unexpectedly, completely aligns with the wishes of terrorists. Oh, how convenient!
I'm not the one who wants all that to continue. How many more lives must be senselessly thrown into a meat grinder just to move a line on a map?
If you care so much about it, why don't you go volunteer yourself? Ah, but you don't want that, what you want is for people to drive around, grabbing people off the street, and forcing them to fight your battles against their will. Because you don't actually care one bit about the people's wellbeing, you want to use them in pawns of the Great Game, which you seem to mistakenly believe benefits anyone outside of the 1%.
Anyway you're not going to have any luck with that terrorist line. That's literally the exact thing that they said about Iraq and Afghanistan, "You're either with us or with the terrorists," I've heard that shit my whole life. I wasn't with them then and history has validated that completely. We'll see how many people have to die this time before the liberals finally realize that war is bad, yes, even this time.
You're literally blaming the victim for war it did not started.
Somehow, in your head, defending what's rightfully yours is senseless killing.
What you don't, "surpsiringly", seem to want is for russian terrorists to pack their shit and go to back to their shithole. Nah, "that's impossible".
In your dumb head surrendering to the imperialist bottomfeeder authoritarian is the only way towards peace. Which will last as long as the moron decides he wants more land and more suffering.
Again, the "peace" people are like the most brainless, who can't seem to think one little step ahead. But of course, this "peace" is very convenient to the usurper which has not occupied the lands, and don't really want to struggle to keep them.
Tankies continue to live up to their absolutely boneheaded image.
The war can end any second, if russia stops attacking and terrorising Ukraine and leaves it's rightful lands according to international law. Go be a keyboard activist about that.
I could not give less of a shit about Ukraine's "rightful lands." No, it's not worth ordinary people dying to preserve the land of a reactionary state.
It's so ridiculously easy to fool you into supporting wars. Literally the exact same playbook every single time and you'll fall for it every single time. "We have to stop them here or they'll keep coming," heard it all before. Where are all the 9/11s, now that we lost in Afghanistan? It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now. Some of us are able to learn from history. It's unfortunate that others refuse to learn and keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.
It's very funny that you call me a keyboard warrior, I still haven't heard your excuse for why you believe in drafting others against their will to fight for a cause you believe in, while you cower at home. Almost as if you don't actually care about the well-being of Ukrainians at all 🤔
Lol, there it is. Not a single word to condemn russia and its wankers. Get the fuck out of my sight.
The executives of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin thank you for spit-shining their boots.
Another Russian stoogie.
Not everyone who disagrees with war or your position on it is deep throating Putin.
say something obviously true
85% downvotes
oh yeah, it's .world time
What's the lead time on T-shirt printing these days?
Should I get the "Hang JD Vance" shirts printed now so I've got them ready to sell, or wait until Trump inevitably turns on him?
Vance is going to push Trump down a flight of stairs his first five minutes in office. He's going to invoke the 25th amendment so fast it'll make your head spin.
The guy has absolutely no interest in being VP and his buddies in Silicon Valley are already chomping at the bit for a Techbro Coup. He's not going to wait 3 hours much less 3 days.
The concept of a Techbro coup is so fucking absurd to me. Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses. Mostly cause Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power, add on to the fact that nobody fucking likes them and well theres a good chance theyd be mulched.
Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses.
Plenty of the coups in Latin America and the Middle East during the 50s and 60s were sponsored by these bean-counters and their billionaire buddies working out of various right-wing think tanks. The Chicago School of Business produced legions of these fuckers and flew them out from Mexico City to Santiago to Brasília. The Saudi Crown Prince MBS has absolutely inundated himself with these freaks in his quest to build the world's most technologically advanced shopping mall. New Zealand is currently drowning in Techbro fascism, after their local media was hijacked by the far right and the residents talked into electing a white nationalist government.
Hell, states like California and Texas and Florida are already thick with these ghouls. That's a big reason why our energy prices are skyrocketing in these states. Techbros build these enormous power-hog data centers and jack up the price of electricity for everyone else.
Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power
They have a great deal of institutional power through contracts with federal and state governments. They're embedded deep in the post-War on Terror panopticon and own huge stakes in private media, so they get to dictate a lot of what we see and hear while distorting public outcries and SWATing political dissidents.
Techbros aren't the brightest, but cops are way dumber and more easy to manipulate. And as our domestic budget increasingly becomes "Oops! All Cops!" that means obedience to the Techbro Establishment is how you make money and keep your job, especially as law enforcement.
That's huge leverage in a system that already favors extremist ultra-nationalist white supremacy.
Dont take my amusement as dismissal, its foolish to underestimate ones enemy. Everything you said is decently true, hell I should know my great grandfather helped run the proto Techbros out of the region back in the 70s. No the weakness of the fascistic Techbro is that they are inherently institutional, anything that works outside of it or doesnt follow procedures is inherently at an advantage against them. Do you really think Musk or Thiel consider that someone may just blow them up with a car bomb or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge?
Their power is drawn from the institutions making them inherently a secondary power behind the actual fascist leadership. They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together. The fascist respects strength, but the Techbros have none. They hide behind laws, money, and influence.
They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together.
That's just fascism generally speaking. You either liberalize or you fail. A paranoid personality cult of an administration can't last long without people Operation Valkyrie-ing each other, as evidence by Trump's ear going missing last weekend.
But in the meantime, you get to restructure the liberal order so that your people are in charge when the dust settles.
The point I am trying to make is that to even get to the point where they can set shit up for the future they first must get past the first hurdle of consolidation. Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example. They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.
Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example.
That's why they introduce guys like Vance, though. He's a great front-man for the operation because liberals continue to treat him as just another moderate midwestern politician. And he's proven his star power, with his movie and book deal.
They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.
I guess we'll see...
I've been on the outside observing this escalating shit show for 8 years now and I think I've finally reached the point where I don't even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.
I mean, I know there's a lot of history behind it etc., but just the past months? I don't even..
I hope shit gets better for ya'll, I sincerely do.
don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.
It's just fascism, volks.
I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.
I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].
Many on the 'far left' and 'far right' say:
NATO is a terrorist organization.
[1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] https://youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU
This sounds like something stupid Joe Rogan would say lol
Do you watch Joe Rogan directly or do you just watch people that talk about him and tell you what to think about him?