this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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transgender

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Welcome to lemmy.ml/c/transgender! This is a community for sharing transgender or gender diverse related news articles, posts, and support for the community.

Rules:

  1. Bigotry, transphobia, racism, nationalism, and chauvinism are not allowed.

  2. Selfies are not permitted for the safety of users.

  3. No surveys or studies.

  4. Debating transgender rights is not allowed. Transgender rights are human rights. Debating transgender healthcare is not allowed. Transgender healthcare is a necessity.

  5. No civility policing transgender people. Transgender people have a right to be angry about transphobia and be rude to transphobes.

  6. If you are cis, do not downvote posts. We don't like you manipulating our community.

  7. Posts about dysphoria/trauma/transphobia should be NSFW tagged for community health purposes.

  8. For both cis and trans people: Please alter your username (if possible) to include pronouns (or lack thereof, or questioning) so no one misgenders anyone. details. This rule is important for maintaining a safe place. If you can't change your ID, please let a mod know and include it in your bio.

  9. Leftist infighting is not allowed.

Please remember to report posts that break any of these rules, it makes our job easier!


If you are looking for a more secure and safe trans space, we suggest you visit https://hexbear.net/c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns. While we will try our best, lemmy.ml/c/transgender is far more open to the fediverse, and also to trolls. One of the site admins of lemmy.ml, nutomic, is also a transphobe, while hexbear is ran mostly by trans people and has a very active trans community.

founded 5 years ago
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If you have no preferred pronouns, just say (none) or something

This will help make people feel more comfortable in this comm and has a side effect of showing you support trans people when making comments in other communities. It will also make reactionaries seethe and make it easier for mods to purge them, and make trans people feel safer all over the fediverse.

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[–] FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 3 months ago (5 children)

So in other words, people who are still eggs, closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy! Creating an environment in which not stating pronouns can be taken as not supporting trans people is likewise transphobic. The practical consequences of these decisions are extremely bad and I strongly request that you undo it!

[–] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago

Lol

Our instance mandated pronouns years ago. They also mass banned concern trolling posts like this one in the ensuing struggle session. We are better off for it.

[–] D61@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago (4 children)

"Any" is an option, "Use Name" is also an option.

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[–] Yor@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

🤡 take. if you don't want to share your pronouns, unsure or use name are both fine. it doesn't out you or misgender you. this is debate nonsense to try to discredit a policy that is definitively helpful for trans people

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago

if you don’t want to share your pronouns, unsure or use name are both fine.

Seconding this, putting something there really isn't a big ask, especially if you're engaging with people in a way you want to be constructive.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

No, it's not.

closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways. He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don't know the person's pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don't know someone's gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

[–] FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 3 months ago (2 children)

If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that

Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

No, it’s not.

It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways.

A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don’t know the person’s pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don’t know someone’s gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

[–] dontpanic@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 3 months ago

Thank you for sticking up for us.

Sincerely, someone deep in the closet for reasons of personal safety.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

While I appreciate your experience, and of course all of us have been questioning at some point, it is important for building a thriving trans community. The rule stays.

A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

Creating a new account is safer, if your argument is you want things to be safer for trans people (re: not showing pronouns in ID), you must also understand that creating a new account is safer for exploration. Your argument is weak.

If they feel nothing suits them they can say (none) or (use name)

Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

I care about making a safe trans community, and making sure people aren't misgendered is part of that. This is how you do that. If you're not for making sure people are gendered properly, leave. 🤷‍♀️ But I suggest you consider it and keep an open mind about it, I genuinely think you have not seen the benefits of this policy.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago

Stay strong against the haters. Mandatory pronoun tags and removal of the downvote button are the two best things we ever did on logo

[–] socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

what is the difference between putting (unsure) or (any) and just not having them? you would still basically have to ask or assume you picked the right one.

on a side note, making "requirements" to be trans is a slippery slope, and nobody should have to prove, or our themselves, just by existing and participating in the world.

and why should it matter if I know I'm interacting with a trans person? why can't we all just treat each other with respect, and if we want to find out more about each other individually we can just ask?

and while your solution of "just make another account" could work for some it simply won't work for all

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[–] PaX@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ahhh sweet redoing the pronouns struggle session on another instance family-guy-death-pose

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

More for the purges I assume how-compelling

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[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Although I'm a cis woman, I have never felt especially pleased with being lumped into this category. I have never listed my pronouns before, ever, and I avoid listing my gender if possible, because I do not want the first thing people to know about me be my gender and then view me through that lens. I have always appreciated the trans community overlooks my femaleness and sees me instead. In real life daily, to my great displeasure I am lumped into one of two boxes; the internet is a welcome reprieve.

I am not nonbinary, I do not prefer they/them. I go by she/her, but I don't want to advertise this. I have my own struggles with gender, even if I'm ultimately cis, and forcing me to report my gender in my username seems frankly gender essentialist.

I did not choose my pronouns.

What should I write? (none) is wrong, because I can be referred to with pronouns.

(ally) might be nice, except in LGBTIA+, "Ally" implies being straight, and I'm not straight.

How about an empty ()? to indicate I acknowledge the system but opt out personally. Or something cute like (friend), or comrade (but I don't know all the implications of that)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

an empty () is completely valid, imo. or even (friend) or (ally) or (any) or something. i definitely would recommend discussing with yor, she could probably help explain why this is a rule, but i get you.

[–] Yor@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago (7 children)

on hex there's both a comrade option and a use name option. the latter seems particularly relevant based on what you said

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[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@lemmy.today 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You can be a she/her NB btw. If you feel a disconnect with your gender or don't feel connected to it, you're free to consider yourself trans.

Anyways, I don't see any problem with avoiding pronouns. Personally, I used to be in that camp - I wanted to be supportive of trans people, but I didn't want to list he/him, but didn't think I was trans enough to use other pronouns... So I just did not put them.

(ally) might be nice, except in LGBTIA+, "Ally" implies being straight, and I'm not straight.

This could be interpreted as aro/ace erasure/exclusion btw by putting the word "Ally" so close to the acronym.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aro/ace are valid and are LGBTIA+. What I mean is, "ally" implies straight, and I'm not.

Gender is a spectrum, and I consider myself cis, even if there are others more cis than me. Most of my troubles with gender come from me feeling society is at fault for treating me differently because of my sex. I think most educated women express such opinions, and that doesn't make us enbies.

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[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago

Looking at this thread and thinking about the long, laborious work our transgender mods are doing and will have to continue doing to clean this place up waow-based respect.

[–] Yor@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago

sharing your pronouns is the very least you can do to show support to trans comrades, so this small request shouldn't be an issue at all

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 12 points 3 months ago (5 children)

[Sincere] why when they can be in my bio?

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[–] NuraShiny@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

This is unenfoceable and you can see in your own headline why. Why call it a rule? is this a reference to Bill Maher? if so, please stop referencing that loathsome removed, he does not deserve your time of day in any way, shape or form.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Maher? I have no clue.

Its absolutely enforceable, funny coming from a hexbear tbh, you have it in your ID right now 🤷‍♀️

[–] NuraShiny@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I know I have it in my bio, because I am in agreement with it since before you made it a rule.

Your own headline says that not all instances have this as an option. That makes it unenforceable for those instances. It is also unenforceable for anyone wandering in from a main page, because they won't be reading this rule before posting. And then sure you can delete their post I guess but what if it wasn't transphobic?

And if you don't know Bill Maher, good. Just know that he is a ghoul and loves to say 'new rule' and then spout the worst take you have heard in your life on a weekly basis.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

Your own headline says that not all instances have this as an option. That makes it unenforceable for those instances. It is also unenforceable for anyone wandering in from a main page, because they won’t be reading this rule before posting. And then sure you can delete their post I guess but what if it wasn’t transphobic?

The post wont be removed, but I will suggest they change name. Repeated infractions might mean a removal, though, and if someone reports their instance can't do it, their instance will be ignored for the rule. The purpose is to make a safer space, we'll see if it works

And if you don’t know Bill Maher, good. Just know that he is a ghoul and loves to say ‘new rule’ and then spout the worst take you have heard in your life on a weekly basis.

👼 I am innocent

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago

I can't watch maher cuz his gob makes my heart pump and my punchin' arm shake something fierce.

Man why couldnt Will Smith have slapped him? That was a great slap.

I couldve have that as my desktop background rn

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[–] PaX@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

jesse-wtf

This is completely enforceable, the only instance I know of that doesn't allow changing your display name is Hexbear and that's cuz we use that field for displaying pronouns lol

loathsome removed

sus-soviet

[–] D61@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Alright maybe, not "rule" as in hard coded and enforced by moderators, "rule" as in social norm.

Maybe?

[–] AgriasArseid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't even notice you could alter your display name like this. Almost a year here and somehow missed this feature.

EDIT:
And apparently its only working on my blahaj.zone account (lol how appropriate)
my beehaw account is not letting me update the name
and my fedia account, which uses mbin doesn't even have it as an option

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

thanks for the info! we're trying to work within the constraints we have

[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

you can change your username? but i like my username the way it is. so if i did this, i'd be like, juliebean_she_her_her_hers_herself@lemm.ee? bit of a mouthful, innit?

[–] apotheotic@beehaw.org 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No, there's your username and the thing that's displayed above your posts. My username is apotheotic, my display name is apotheotic (she/her)

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[–] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The displayed username is different from the internal one. Im mathemachristian@lemm.ee but once i figure out how to do this it will display me as mathemachristian (he/him)@lemm.ee but internally refer to me still as mathemachristian@lemm.ee

edit: got my accounts mixed up but the point is the same

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago

Display names can, by default at least (on hexbear its 80 I think), be at most 24 chars long

[–] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

this would be a good case for lemmy to start supporting flairs like reddit does. No shame in copying legitimately useful features.

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