this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

So... whats stopping something like sponsorblock from nixing this potentially bankrupting choice?

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 0 points 5 months ago
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[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I'll just continue to not use Youtube...

[–] Beaver@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I will see you on peertube ;)

[–] original_reader@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I really wish this would gain some traction. As it is, there is just not enough content there to compete with YouTube in any reasonable way.

[–] PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well the problem here is that youtubers need some type of monetization too for compensation. Idk Peertube can solve this without ads.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This is new to me; are there any decent android apps for it?

[–] Beaver@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago

They’re working on creating an official android app that’s all I know.

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[–] Psych@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Begun the arms race have .

[–] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Just wait until someone trains an AI to recognize and skip ads.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 0 points 5 months ago

That poor AI.

[–] gnutrino@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago

This particular arms race began a couple of decades ago at least...

[–] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 0 points 5 months ago (11 children)

I'll be curious to see where this ends up going, as I doubt the community will take this lying down.

The few times I've had to go without an Ad blocker, I've seen just how bad the Ads have gotten - they're almost the same as regular TV Ad breaks now! ... And then YouTube Premium is just not a good deal in my eyes, £12.99 a month is an awful lot to pay just to not see Ads.

[–] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The majority of of people using it will most definitely take it lying down as they're most likely not tech savvy enough to install a browser extension on a laptop if the only thing on the page was a large red install button.

[–] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 0 points 5 months ago

That's why I specified the community, as in the more tech savy folks that would care about this, because I know that the wider public is surprisingly tech illiterate

[–] pycorax@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ads will probably stop me from watching YouTube completely. The huge surge of ads at some point was what stopped me from using Instagram.

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[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You're not paying to not see ads. You're paying for the content on the platform. You can pay either by watching ads or by paying for premium.

[–] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (9 children)

Content creators get nothing from a subscription To YouTube premium.

You’re not paying for the content, you’re paying for and-free access to the content.

[–] Nighed@feddit.uk 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

They get money from premium views. I believe they get significantly more per premium views than an add view.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago

This is true, no matter what ElevethHour and their downvote brigade want you to believe.

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[–] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I saw someone say Twitch does this, but there are many Twitch ad blockers that work

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[–] ours@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

This must cost YouTube a fortune doing additional processing and reduced flexibility. They are going to hurt themselves and blockers will find a way.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

There's already extensions that somehow skip sponsorship sections, so it won't even take that long.

[–] daddy32@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That's "crowdsourced", i.e. manually done by volunteers on per-video basis.

[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 0 points 5 months ago

I see a good use case for AI, can also be crowd sourced.

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[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 0 points 5 months ago

That's actually hurt by this because it uses timestamps supplied by users to work. But now they are off because the ads are of variable length. We can just hope that YouTube keeps the ability to link to a specific timestamp because then it has to calculate the difference and that can be used by Sponsorblock and adblockers alike.

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[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not really. They can precompute those and inject it in an MP4 file so long as the settings match and it's inserted right before an i-frame so that it doesn't corrupt b-frames. They already reencode everything with their preferred settings, so they only need to encode the ads for those same settings they already do. Just needs to be spliced seamlessly.

But YouTube uses DASH anyway, it's like HLS, the stream is served in individual small chunks so it's even easier because they just need to add chunks of ads where they can add mismatched video formats, for the same reason it's able to seamlessly adjust the quality without any audio glitches.

Ad blockers will find a way.

[–] ours@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Re-encoding is one thing, but ads are more or less supposed to be dynamic based on user location and likely some other data to target them.

Offloading that to the client made a lot of sense but now they have to do this server-side, they have very smart people working on making this as efficient as possible using tricks you've mentioned and more but it is still more effort than before. All for something that will likely be circumvented eventually.

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[–] steersman2484@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago

You can check the SponsorBlock FAQ about this. They do not need to do additional reprocessing

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[–] parpol@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Sample the color of a specified pixel (or something recognizable in the streaming format) every 30 frames from the original video.

Store collection of pixels in a database and share in a peer to peer network or stored on invidious instances. Because the sample size is small, and the database can be split up by youtube channel, the overall size and traffic should remain low.

When streaming a youtube video, if the plugin detects that the pixel in the video doesn't match the one in the database, automatically skip until where the pixel matches the data in the database.

[–] programmer_belch@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That is prone to error, just a pixel can be too small of a sample. I would prefer something with hashes, just a sha1sum every 5 seconds of the current frame. It can be computed while buffering videos and wait until the ad is over to splice the correct region

[–] might_steal_your_cat@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem with (good) hashes is that when you change the input even slightly (maybe a different compression algorithm is used), the hash changes drastically

[–] programmer_belch@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, that's why I'm proposing it as opposed to just one pixel to differentiate between ad and video. Youtube videos are already separated in sections, just add some metadata with a hash to every one.

[–] might_steal_your_cat@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think that downsizing the scene to like 8x8 pixels (so basically taking the average color of multiple sections of the scene) would mostly work. In order to be undetected, the ad would have to match (at least be close to) the average color of each section, which would be difficult in my opinion: you would need to alter each ad for each video timestamp individually.

Yes, that could be an alternative to computing hashes, I don't know what option would be less resource intensive

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[–] my_hat_stinks@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago (6 children)

My gut reaction is that this won't work long-term. Users on youtube often point to specific timestamps in a video in comments or link to specific timestamps when sharing videos, meaning there needs to be some way to identify the timestamp excluding ads. And if there's a way to do that there's a way to detect ads.

Of course, there's always the chance they just scrap these features despite how useful they are and how commonly they're used; they've done similar before.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

YT already scrapped (or broke) setting the start/end timestamps for embedded videos. That hasn't worked for at least the last few weeks. Embed videos now always start at 0

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I embedded a video yesterday with a start timestamp and it worked

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[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The whole point of having ads be separate from the video is for youtube to easily distance itself from malicious ads. If an ad is malicious it can easily be reported and taken out of commission. But if ads are now part of the video, what stops an ad from being an ISIS beheading clip in the middle of a video made for children? If there is still a way to still report it, then there is a way to recognize the ad.

Also how will this interfere with creators? Editing a video and giving it a proper pace is already a huge challenge. But now ads can just be automaticaly cut into it without the creators control? That's gonna fuck up so many quality channels. That's already a big problem with the current system, bit at least you can skip or block them.

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[–] Rolando@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (14 children)

some people still recommend using a VPN and IP address from a country where YouTube ads are prohibited, such as Myanmar, Albania, or Uzbekistan.

Wait, you can just prohibit YouTube ads at a national level? That's somehow awesome and terrifying at the same time.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

That's somehow awesome and terrifying at the same time.

The people of this country would find it just the normal thing.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I am excited. This will break my YouTube addiction.

It'll only affect me when I need to fix something I'm unfamiliar with, and it'llead creators to using other platforms for that kind of material, and lower the barrier to entry.

I don't know why Google is shooting themselves in the foot like this. I mean, it'll be profitable in the short run, yes, but this will almost certainly be devastating to their bottom line in the long run if it works as planned.

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[–] Rinox@feddit.it 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

How it works is that once you start getting them, the video will create a sort of queue with ads before each video that can't be skipped and have a red bar (not yellow). They are not literally part of the video stream, it's a separate stream that tries to act as the legitimate ad. It's called SSAP and I've been experiencing it from the last weekend.

Ublock Origin has released a temporary fix yesterday here

Alternatively, you can use this extension to redirect from YouTube videos to piped.video I used it, it works very well, can't guarantee for much more.

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Anything that makes it distinct gives a blocking opportunity, I assume?

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[–] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

What impossible? There's sponsorblock. Just add a new category.

[–] kostas@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We used to just get up and do the dishes while whatever injected nonsense interupted what we were watching on TV. And when it became too much we turned to DVDs or piracy. Then streaming was the "savior" until whoever funded it realized that more users do not equal more money. And now we are almost back to square one. This is just played out at this point. Google/Yt/TIktok etc are just betting on the addictive nature of instant gratification to survive.

At some point, I think, all the effords of adblocking (grayjay, newpipe, sponsorblock, ublock) will seem impractical when a download (and maybe now scan to cut out ads and sponsor segments) will achive the same. And then peer to peer is the most practical way to share that instead of redoing all the work.

Until downloading is hindered too much and someone somewhere just has OBS with some adhoc script on top running 24/7 to capture youtube videos. The conversation of when is adblocking piracy etc seems to me to be coming to a natural end (at least as far as legalilties go).

One saving grace the internet has bestowed on media is that it is easier to follow creators and fund their work (if you can afford it).

[–] Chee_Koala@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Humanity accepts your challenge! See y'all on the battlefield ;-)

[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (6 children)

lights molotov cocktail

...

"are we not going to do that, or....? asking for a friend, of course"

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