this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
635 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

37739 readers
500 users here now

A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.

Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Subcommunities on Beehaw:


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

But it’s the job of the citizenry to stand up to this stuff, not the state.

So what's the state for?

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

So what's the state for?

Serving the interests of the citizens.

[–] RadioRat@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

That’s a good question ;)

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Regulate an economy, maintain a border (meaning this is our stuff and everything outside the border is not it isn't necessarily manning a border), and enforce laws. That's the three basic tasks of any government.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah. Our state should do more and better things than that.

I like having a space program, for example. And education for all

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those are optional. The three things I listed are the basic requirements for all governments.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A space program is not optional in today's world. As is education, among a huge number of different things

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you take intro to poli sci literally anywhere in the world this is part of your first lesson. The three things listed are what makes a government a government. Kenya has no space program and is still a government.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are many schools of thought on what a government is for or should do and most people do not ascribe to the notions you are presenting as fact.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The three things listed are what every single nation state does. There is zero debate on this and it would be nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It doesn't matter what you think. Governments are expected and set up to do much more than that around the world and that's because that's what their intents are. It's not just those three things. If what you said was true, we'd have had no meaningful progress on anything.

You can deny it all you want, denial ain't just a river in Egypt

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

Im not telling you what I think. Im telling you what is easily demonstrable.

Fir example you said you need a space program does that mean MOST countries do not have a government? Most countries do not have a space program because they are too expensive and provide little benefit for a country like Libya.

You mention education yet government provided education started in the late 1800s to 20th century for most nations. Was England never a nation state? That would be a moronic claim considering their monarchy is the longest one still running.

This is a case where you simply have no clue what you are talking about and it shows

[–] liv@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you're misunderstanding the person you're talking to. They are just saying that anything that can't do those 3 things is not a government.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There are a lot of things that collapse a government if not done that's not one of those three things, though. Like educating its people. Especially that one for a democratic government, in actual fact.

[–] liv@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think you're still confusing what you like in a government (e.g democracy) with what something has to do in order to qualify as a government.

Take a look at this report on education. If we look at a country like Mali the average child there has just two years of schooling and attendence even at primary/elementary school is very low.

It may not have a government that we like, but it still has a government.

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, you are not understanding that

hat something has to do in order to qualify as a government.

is subjective, and differs from culture to culture and person to person.

And until you accept that fact, no debate is possible. Goodbye

[–] liv@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Bye, have a nice weekend!

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago

Those three things define any government. Those are the absolute minimum. If you cannot determine your border you have no sovereignty. If you cannot enforce laws then your laws have no authority and you have no sovereignty. If you cannot maintain some dorm of economy you cannot control your government and will cede sovereignty.

[–] wagoner@infosec.pub 1 points 1 year ago

Also make laws

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The function of a properly constituted government is to prevent other worse governments from forming.

[–] TehPers@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

This doesn't define what a properly constituted government is though. Any government can prevent other worse governments from forming, all they need to do is massacre their citizens and there will be nobody left to form a government.