Nah man, Americans have values. Freedom, perseverance, independence, self expression. It's just that we have utterly failed to uphold those values in our actions. Even in the beginning, talking about slavery being terrible but still allowing it for political reasons right at the founding.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Those values only really served as a way for the ruling class that founded America to justify itself. They weren't genuine.

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world -1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I'm talking about the shared cultural values of the society we have today, views shared by most Americans. Most Americans like free speech. Most Americans like liberty. Et cetera and so on. These are things that are part of our culture. You aren't any less of a person for recognizing that these are values that are held by this culture.

I am also saying that despite culturally sharing in these values, our society also fails to actually support them in very big ways.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

And I am telling you that the cultural aspects came from a desire from the ruling class to support freedom for Capitalists to do what they want, and morally justify it. That's why these values never seem to actually be supported, just gestured towards.

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

So you admit that those cultural aspects are actually there. Which are failed when they are used to support the ruling class.

Which was my point.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

They succeed in their purpose, to obscure the systems that uphold the ruling class. These cultural values didn't appear out of thin air, but deliberately to preserve the wealthy Capitalists that founded the country.

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

That is irrelevant to my point, however true it may be