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Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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See, I am overall against any and all limits of free speech but...
Yeah. Context matters. And in current world context, good job Australia, hope outher countries take notes.
I don’t really understand this whole “free speech” thing. If it were ww2 would you be worried about nazis having free speech or would you do what needed to be done?
This isn't WWII, we aren't in war. By letting go of free speech you are letting goverment tell you what is ok to talk about, and by doing that you allow them to expand taboo. In times of need like today, that is necessary evil, however normally that is something out of horror.
For example, whether you agree or not, at the end of WW II communism was seen as almost as bad as nazizm, and in USA I think, may be wrong, that it was seen as worse. What's bad is that every social policy is coupled with it mentally. If free speech wasn't a thing, USA could tell it's citizens that talking about nazizm, communism, social policies or unions is strictly forbidden under threat of, at least, financial fine.
Oh boy do I have news for you about what the US did without laws to anyone considered communist. Free speech has and will never be absolute, so it is up to us to determine what is allowed and what is not.
That's where you lost me.
Knowing my luck, I'd get 12 months for having my arm at an unfavourable angle while giving directions.
Literal hate crimes, I'm all for. A gesture with your arm gets you 12 months? That's too much, regardless of its origin or meaning.
I'll say, likely wasting my digital breath, I do not support any sort of Nazi bullshit or affiliates. But truly, outlawing gestures is a next level, knee jerk reaction to a problem they don't know what else to do to solve.
If you read the article, just a gesture with your arm does not land a person a 12-month prison sentence. It needs to be in public and in combination with: hateful speech, or a hateful act. It seems to be an add-on for specific types of hate crimes.
Excellent, then I'm all for it.
So Elon Musk would've been in the clear.
he alludes to the fourteen words right after the salute so you could make a case
You sound like those cops who tell victims of domestic violence that there's nothing they can do until lives are being threatened.
Cool dude. You sound like a battered house wife that sticks up for her abusive husband.
I generally don't do "slippery slope" arguments, and I also dislike invoking the "paradox of tolerance", but I will say that I think the messaging here is important.
To me, it's not "just a gesture". It's a very clear and intentional demonstration of ideological alignment, and it's an ideology of hate and intolerance.
I'm absolutely ok with expressing, as a society, that we will not accept this ideology amongst us. If they want to scuttle around through the cracks like cockroaches then so be it.
Fair point, best explained response yet.
The problem is application of this kind of law tends to be highly subjective depending on who is in power. This law is ironically ripe for abuse by fascists. This type of free speech should be met with universal scorn, shaming, and ostracism, not jail.
Yeah nah. Any law is ripe for abuse by fascists.
To me the law is less about punishing Nazis and more of a clear statement that as a society we find this ideology unacceptable.
While without context I'd agree that banning a gesture is a bit much, especially with such steep measures, I think that in a world when one of the de facto co-leaders of major if not the main world superpowers openly does nazi salute twice, we need to up the guard and cut this shit in the bud.
And as you said - we don't know how to solve USA becoming a nazi state rapidly. Nobody does. And third reich ain't gonna hold a candle to USA if they decide it's time for blitzkrieg. So doingall we can to damage and reduce nazizm where we still can is admirable.
It's a nazi fucken salute mate. What part of it isn't a hate crime?
The part where it's raising your arm at an angle. You dislike it because of what it means and signifies, but imagine some group took 'flipping the bird' to align with their ideology and in 20 years your kid gets arrested for flipping someone off.
Obviously a silly example but you have to look past the context and think about what are we really doing here? Jailing people for a gesture?
That's fucking wild.