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Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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You’re playing into the paradox of tolerance. Don’t do that.
It's nothing to do with paradox of tolerance to think a year's mandatory jail time for a year is pretty ridiculous for any "hate-related offenses".
I'm against in general of just throwing people into the slammer and hoping that fixes the issues. Punishment should fit the crime and some dipshit doing some Nazi salute isn't worth a year in goddamn prison. Give them a hefty fine for first time, sure, but a mandatory sentence of a year for any such offense, just seems too far.
Why stop at jail time? Why not execute them?
Edit: the point is to consider what level of punishment is appropriate, not to actually execute anyone.
Pragmatic constraints.
What level of punishment is appropriate?
Sure! What's worthy of more punishment, stealing packages from your neighbors doorstep or doing a Nazi salute? How about assaulting someone and mugging them? I think those are both worse than a nazi salute and deserving of more punishment. A Nazi salute wouldn't affect me at all except to be annoyed at their idiocy. Beating me up or stealing my stuff definitely impacts me. I don't have a clear idea of how much punishment is reasonable, but probably something less than the punishment for petty theft. That's my two cents.
I asked you what level of punishment is appropriate. You did not answer.
And it's nice of you to have the privilege to not be affected by a Nazi salute. Jews like me don't have that luxury, because many of us have personally experienced what comes next. And I don't mean during WWII.
I didn't really answer because I'm not quite sure. I suppose i have a hard time imagining what category of actions or words should be punishable with jail time. Maybe hate speech? But then how do you define hate speech? And how do you limit the growing list of things defined as hate speech? Seems too easily politicized, like they could be repurposed as blasphemy laws or something. I guess i tend toward those not being punishable offenses because of their subjective nature. A nazi salute might cause me to roll my eyes, but cause you a ton of distress, regardless of the actual intent of the person doing it. Maybe they did it without knowing what it meant to you, or maybe they thought it was funny, or maybe they were trying to normalize and legitimize hatred of Jews. It could be any of those or something altogether different. There is far too much subjectivity or room for error.
The world may never know.
Also, this:
None of those things make a Nazi salute acceptable. Literally nothing makes it acceptable. You're now on the level of people who have been defending Elon Musk for it, I hope you realize that.
Dude, if a 15 year old kid is messing around with his buddies and throws up a salute, it should not be punishable. If a 30 year old autistic guy throws up a salute because he never understood the context or meaning behind it, he shouldn't be punished. I can theorize a hundred examples that wouldn't be deserving of punishment, but are actually simple misunderstanding or ignorance. And that's the problem. I don't think it's acceptable, but I also don't think it's punishable through government actions. Social pressure should be sufficient to correct ignorant behavior in cases like this. Do you think it's more just to punish an innocent man wrongly, or to let a guilty person go free? Do you feel confident in the justice system ability to determine guilt accurately?
You're now using the exact excuse people made for Elon Musk.
Can you tell me about all these autistic people who go around giving Nazi salutes inadvertently? Because there are a lot of autistic people in my family and that doesn't seem to be amongst their symptoms.
Elon is mature enough and to know better and I'm not defending him. But my argument is not that they would do it inadvertently, but that they would do it without understanding the significance. I feel like you keep trying to bully me into a position I don't hold...
It is impossible for me to bully you over Lemmy. It is possible to say offensive things about autistic people, though. Maybe you shouldn't. Unless you have an actual example of this happening.
You are intentionally mischaracterizing my stance and then being preachy and condescending about it. It's pretty annoying so I'm going to move on.
I am not mischaracterizing anything. I am asking you to give an example of what you're talking about.
Clearly you can't. You apparently don't understand what autism is.