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Trump reportedly complaining about Elon in private — and hates ‘President Musk’ joke
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2025
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Fixed it for you. Trump doesn't even have the prestige or influence of a vice president (and that alone speaks volumes) in this situation.
Edit: no offense meant to women/trans folks.
Hey, just so you're aware, a lot of women and trans people find this joke pretty misogynistic and transphobic since it implies that it would be more demeaning for Elon to be a woman or queer than it is for him to be his regular cringey self. Something to keep in mind so we don't friendly-fire on our allies!
Edit for anyone still struggling with this: if 👏 you 👏 misgender 👏 ANYONE 👏 on purpose 👏 then 👏 trans 👏 people 👏 will 👏 not 👏 trust 👏 you 👏
ThePowerofGeek, you're great and appreciated and I hope you don't read anything below from the people who want you to have a worse reaction so their feelings don't get hurt vicariously.
I don't think you, or the people you're claiming to represent, understand the joke. First Lady Musk refers to Trump, not Elon. The implication isn't that it's demeaning to be a woman or queer, but that the spouse of the President has no real power or authority. This has nothing to do with their gender, and everything to do with the fact that they are the unelected spouse of an elected official.
The only ones who benefit when you misinterpret things in a way that implies unintended and unsubstantiated bigotry, are those who can use it to reinforce their claims of a misguidedly hypersensitive left, and thereby undermine justified recognition of intended and substantiated bigotry.
Then simple question, why not use First Gentleman? Kamala Harris' husband was Second Gentleman and would have been first if she had won.
You're speaking with a lot of confidence about the validity of the feelings of a group of people who, I'm guessing, you are not apart of.
Because those terms will not aggravate trump. The intent is to aggravate trump not denigrate femininity. Focus ffs. This isn’t about insulting trans people or women, it’s about fighting back on someone who is trying to hurt them. We will struggle to maintain allies if we cannot focus on the speakers intent and not a willing misinterpretation of their words.
Going by your logic, that would be offensive to me, as a gay man.
But this kind of hypersensitivity, especially when applied regardless of context or intent, is one of the main drivers of the reactionary sentiment that is allowing the right to win elections all over the world. It's one of the reasons why the "free speech" argument has worked so well in their favor.
Currently, the only ones benefitting from this "moral high-ground" stance are fragile little baby egos like Musk and Trump who can rest assured knowing their opposition would never stoop as low as them, while they get to freely spew as much intentionally evil shit as they want.
A society where no one is ever offended by anyone is a utopia. It's as desirable as it is unattainable. I think the best thing we can do at the moment is focus on fighting back, not fighting against each other.
Generally, jokes aren't funny when you convolute them with a distracting term that people don't know.
This is probably the second time I've read that term in 4 years. Still had to think about what it meant. I am getting the impression you don't make a lot of jokes or find them as vital as I do. I say that because I wrote several paragraphs about jokes, why they are important, and why I think it's bad if people stop making them. At no point did you respond to a word of that, and here I see you prioritizing "being PC" over a joke landing at all.
Because we've never actually had a First Gentleman, so the term isn't familiar. This is a scenario where strict accuracy muddles the rhetoric beyond recognition, which defeats the purpose.
When did I say anything about the validity of anyone's feelings?
Because nobody knows what those are.
Hmm, good to know. Thanks.
The intent is to say something that will antagonise Trump. The intent is not to demean women.
Attacking someone who shares your moral platform because you purposefully misinterpret their words to suit a separate agenda is friendly fire.
Transphobia and misogyny are not to be tolerated, do you really think that someone attacking turnip (autocorrect, I’m leaving it) online doesn’t share your views on this?
Stip trying to police speech among your allies. Focus on intent. Stop with the nonsense infighting we are at war rn.
I think you're right about all this. Just wanted to add that this joke is (a little) funny because it simultaneously points out that trump and Elon are misogynistic and kind of gleefully watches them squirm about it, since you know they are also reading it in their own social media feeds.
If someone is offended by this joke, I would agree it's kind of hypersensitive but more importantly they are missing what the joke means at all. They noticed concepts they get upset about and not really understood how the concepts are being used.
Tldr; This joke is funny because it points out these assholes' bigotry and taunts them with it. It kind of trusts the audience to see that the entirety of the joke is inherently mocking someone for being a bigot.
Frankly I think you’ve put it better than I did.
That’s exactly what the joke is about.
The punchline is: ‘they are bigots’, not: ’fuck trans people and women’.
Appreciate you.
Haha I'll take that encouragement! I appreciate you speaking up too. I have tried this kind of pushback before and it's too easy to get mobbed with accusations of being an awful person, so I tried to tread lightly to avoid a completely pointless hatefest. I think it also speaks to Lemmy and maybe my blocklist that that didn't happen here. On reddit I'm 99% sure if people read what we wrote we'd get flooded inboxes saying we're just trying to justify transphobia/misogyny/etc.
Why are trans people's feelings less important than feelings of people making jokes online?
I don't want to be arguing here either, that's why I'm politely letting folks know that these sort of jokes may alienate their allies. You don't have to do anything with that information if you don't want to! Don't engage with this at all, and feel free to let me know what material good you've done to fight for trans rights in the time saved, will you?
They are not just jokes. People posting these things are doing so specifically to antagonise the right.
I’m telling you that your concern trolling is alienating allies.
I have chosen to engage in this just like you chose to deal with the blowback when you posted it.
All I have done to “fight for trans rights” is to speak out when I can, challenge bigotry as I am challenging you right now, stand up and be counted at queer marches/events and raise a daughter who took the only trans kid in her high school to prom.
You don’t know my life and that isn’t the discussion. Stop deflecting and learn to focus on intent.
I'm also in favor of the viewpoint that the "First Lady Trump" joke was fine. Just felt the need to comment on the last point; I've had that sentiment before too, but I've also seen danger in the idea that "Because my intentions were positive, I shouldn't be criticized." That's been a defense used by bigots, too. eg, Trump throwing paper towels to disaster victims (even though he certainly didn't have to take time out of his day to throw paper towels, gee, how nice he is!)
I'd like to hope that in the past 30 days I've never said anything racist/bigoted - but I'd also acknowledge the possibility that despite my positive intentions, I may have. It's only important because these days very few people think themselves to be bigots. Think about the type of person most likely to say things like "I'm not racist!"
First asshole musk
Not actually sure that's what this joke implies. Any trans/women are welcome to correct me here though. I don't necessarily trust that this comment getting upvotes indicates that a majority of women and trans people agree with you.
And yes, I know I'll get downvotes and people convinced I have the worst motives possible but actually my motivation is just that not every joke that can possibly be taken negatively by someone will be taken that way.
I'm just reporting what I'm hearing, I didn't poll every trans person out there on this. I can't share my personal communications, but here are two public trans people discussing this over a month ago, if that helps confirm I'm not pulling this from nowhere:
I believe you that someone will think that way about the joke in the thread here on Lemmy, but imo that requires an assumption that I wish people wouldn't make. Unfortunately I am unable to follow that screenshot you posted. If it contains a joke I am not seeing it.
You asked women or trans people to say otherwise if they disagreed with you- I'm a woman, my friends are trans people, and there are two more trans people as well. Like I said, I can't poll everyone, but neither can you. You can choose to do with that information what you like, but there's literally no way to prove this definitively.
As for the screenshot, the order is middle-top-bottom reading order (which I agree is confusing) or smallest font to biggest font. The middle is an account using "Elonia" as a joke, the top is a trans woman who quotes it calling it out for transmisogyny, and the bottom is a trans man replying in agreement with the trans woman.
fwiw I'm a trans woman and I think that it's still bigotry even if the target is a shitty person. Come up with a more creative insult, it's not hard to mock shitty people for being shitty without being misogynistic or transphobic.
On the flip side, I feel like his daughter would appreciate it.
I'd want to ask her first, because all the trans people I know personally are icked out by it.
What are you talking about? Trump all but runs the republican party at this point. Let's not forget he has like a third of the population ready to commit violence at the mere suggestion by him that an election was rigged (regardless of the facts). That's sure seems like influence to me.