this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
18 points (82.1% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26968 readers
1298 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Consider the words on the screen. There are two sources of information.

  1. The words, how they're arranged and such.

  2. The meaning that you assign to the words. Meaning drawn from a lifetime of memories.

99% of the information comes from the assigned meaning. So 99% of what's going on here is you talking to yourself.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 hours ago

Your source number 2 involves a hard interdisciplinary research problem: "what is meaningful language use?" My grad school thesis was tangentially related to it, so I'm most familiar with it from the AI perspective. Early AI researchers quickly realized that you can't just dump a dictionary into a computer and suddenly have it understand language. You can add high-level "scripts" to the computer (Schankian scripts), but then it will just be manipulating symbols (chinese room problem). You can tie the symbols to things in the world (symbol grounding) or to its own processing (embodied meaning) but how do you coordinate those symbols with other agents, be they people or machines?

Think about that last question for a moment. Do you have an answer? I don't think anyone does yet, so whatever you're thinking is probably a good start towards further reading. @fubo@lemmy.world's reply points out some of the issues involved, and these issues suggest the problem's interdisciplinary nature: psychology, sociology, corpus linguistics, philosophy (both analytic i.e. Wittgenstein and Kripke, and continental as suggested by @AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world's reply), cognitive science, neurolinguistics, etc. Literary theory is fun too, they say things like: an interpretation is situated, subjective, and performative. OK, sounds great, but how do you turn that into something that a computer does? It turns out that there are a lot of great ideas, but there's still a lot of work to do to tie it all together. (and unfortunately way too many people think deep neural networks / LLMs can just solve it all by themselves grumble grumble...)

Given the above, to answer your specific question: "Is [meaningful] language mostly solipsistic?" I think most people would say "probably not", with the caveat that it depends on how you define your terms. Clearly there are very important processes that work only in your own cognitive system, but it seems likely that external factors also play a necessary role.