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405 Freeway: Gaza protesters block traffic in West Los Angeles (www.foxla.com)

submitted 3 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/usa@lemmy.ml

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[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Local and state governments absolutely have a say through their investments to Israel. It's just as important to pressure them for divestment as the federal government and corporations on the BDS list.

Not only are state and local lawmakers more accessible to constituents than federal lawmakers, but local investment portfolios also hold billions of dollars in funding to Israel sourced from the everyday taxes of community members. State and local governments across the U.S. hold more than $4 trillion in all investments in their investment portfolios. At least $1.6 billion in Israel Bonds is held between state governments, municipal governments, and public pension funds nationwide. Those investment dollars come from every individual, household, and business within the municipal or state borders that pay property taxes, income taxes, and sales taxes, making them some of the most representative pools of dollars invested on behalf of the public. Saper says that campaigns targeting the investment of these local dollars “invite people to reckon with how implicated we are here at home with the atrocities we are witnessing abroad.”

https://truthout.org/articles/state-and-local-efforts-to-divest-from-israel-are-gaining-steam/

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Let me paint you a picture of the fucked up situation in the Middle East.

If the US withdraws support of Israel, Iran attacks, they have pretty much openly stated that they would if that were to happen. If Iran attacks and Israel is out of options, Israel uses nukes. If Israel uses nukes, Pakistan uses nukes. Then India. During all of this, due to the massive amount of destabilization, extremist warlords start popping up. Russia and China start sticking their fingers into things, and not just in the Middle East, but any country/territory they've had their eye on, such as Taiwan. All of this takes place a stones throw away from European countries in NATO, and if any of them get hit, all of NATO is obligated to respond. That's not getting into the shit places like Turkey or North Korea would start during the chaos.

It's not as fucking simple as just cutting off Israel. It's a big, complicated, shitty machine that is likely to fucking explode if you remove the wrong pieces. And as shitty as it sounds, 40k casualties over 10 months is a lot less than the millions that would die within a week were shit to hit the fan.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The premise of your idea, is wrong. Iran is threatening to retaliate unless Israel agrees to a ceasefire

And as you also mentioned, this has been going on for many, many months. And the context, the immediate context anyway, is a very simple one here, which is that Hezbollah has made clear, Lebanon has made clear, as other — as Iran has made clear, that as soon as there’s a ceasefire in Gaza, all of these support fronts will stop pretty much instantly. So this is the context, and in the meantime, people are just waiting for the response.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/8/13/karim_makdisi_iran_israel_lebanon_gaza

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Only Israel can agree to a ceasefire. The US does not make that decision for them. Netanyahu is a war criminal dictator. You think the US withdrawing would be the end of it? Fuck no. And what do you think happens if the US withdraws support and Netandipshit doesn't agree to a ceasefire?

I get it, you want a genocide to stop. But the thing you are arguing for (US withdrawing support) doesn't stop the genocide. You think Israel doesn't at least have the resources already in hand to still level Gaza? Plus, currently the US is the only country sort-of able to talk and negotiate with them, withdraw support and no one can. And again, if they are out of allies, out of options, and other countries start invading, Israel WILL use nukes. It's not even a question in my mind. Netanyahu will do whatever he can to stay in power.

[+] jordanlund@lemmy.world -11 points 3 months ago (3 children)

The people screaming for divestment have no idea what's involved. In many cases there are contractual obligations that make it impossible.

The people screaming for it have no idea how any of it works, they just want it stopped and will continue to get angry when it doesn't.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

This is nonviolent civil disobedience to protect the financial support of an ongoing genocide. Acting like this isn't a valid form of protest or that the BDS movement have "no idea what's involved" when putting pressure on corporations and institutions to Divest is ridiculous.

These kind of protests do put pressure and bring the issue to the forefront of the local and state administrative bodies. The BDS movement was successful in the divestment of Apartheid South Africa, this isn't too different

“Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue,” King wrote. “It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored.”

MLK Jr. on the nature of nonviolent protests

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, hundreds of thousands of innocent children. This piece of paper says it's impossible to stop paying for you to be murdered.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Pretty much, that's how "contractual obligations" work.

In my state, we've been trying to get the state Public Employees Retirement System to divest from oil investments for a few decades now. The big problem is PERS is tied up with contractual obligations to provide a specific return on investment, a return which can't be made if they dump fossil fuels:

https://www.opb.org/article/2024/02/07/oregon-retirement-fund-carbon-neutrality/

The folks supporting divestment think it's like a light switch. "Well, just STOP!" and it doesn't work that way.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

It literally does just work that way. A piece of paper is a piece of paper. "But we won't make as much money" is the part that holds it together. Contracts and laws in general are no more or less than a pretext to exercise class power. They're broken at will in other contexts. The US was literally founded on it.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Tell me you don't understand how a contract works without telling me you don't understand how a contract works.

There are legal liabilities for breaking a contract. It's not that simple.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

Tell me you don't interact with people without a keyboard without telling me [useless repetition]. Fucking weirdo.

Yes it is that simple. The law is, and only is, a mechanism for people with power to exercise that power under the veil of legitimacy. Ask any Indian tribe. Ask anyone with x amount of money attempting to litigate a contract with someone with 1000x amount of money.

The reality of the system cannot be disputed without looking like a fucking joke.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

Lmao contracts are broken every day... and you say other people have no idea what's involved