this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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[–] Cognitive_Dissident@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

With so many fewer moving parts compared to an internal combustion engine, yes, EVs could be durable enough to be handed down from generation to generation. Just keep replacing the few moving parts that wear out. Worn interiors can be refreshed. Electronics are modules that can be replaced with updated versions.

What we have to look out for here though is this overall trend of 'rent everything own nothing', though. Car companies might try to make vehicles lease-only, so you have all the responsibilities of ownership but none of the benefits of ownership, and it's never paid off, you just pay forever.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Exactly. I'm looking for a repairable EV, and so many kinda suck. A lot have big computer modules that control nearly everything, the battery pack uses bespoke parts that aren't available from the manufacturer, etc. They probably need less maintenance, but they will need that maintenance eventually.

It's disappointing the direction everything is going.

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[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

the one pain point would be the batteries, and those have no reason to not be easily maintainable and highly universal. They're all modular and often times even using the same cell types.

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[–] Doug7070@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

While it's true that EVs can be built with fewer moving parts in the drive system itself, and that companies could absolutely produce longer lasting vehicles if they focused on longevity, there are still a lot of parts of a vehicle that simply will not last beyond a certain point. The moving parts of an EV still cover everything in the suspension, wheels/brakes/steering, and a number of other components that are very costly to replace, not to mention the underlying frame/unibody of the vehicle itself being vulnerable to wear over time depending on the conditions it's driven in. "The few moving parts that wear out" still covers a huge swath of a vehicle, even if you take the engine and transmission out of the equation.

Well-built EVs with a focus on longevity and repairability could extend the lifespan of the average people mover by a great deal, but at the end of the day cars will by nature eventually reach a point where the cost to repair some major core component becomes too great to justify, outside of rare or collectable cases.

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[–] drawerair@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

1 of the 👍 points that were brought up was artificial gatekeeping. Many techies know it but I guess many non-techies don't know it. Phone makers intentionally not putting the newest features on old phones to boost the newest phones' sales should be widely known. I wonder what the public opinion will be.

[–] gnu@lemmy.zip 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

All cars could last a lot longer if people kept maintaining them and - importantly - didn't damage them. Electric cars are not going to be immune to this, I can't see them lasting much longer on average than ICE cars.

Keep in mind that even when you change out the engine for something with less parts the rest of the car still remains and contains things which will eventually cause issues. For example I bought a cheap van a few months ago and here's some of the reasons it was cheap that are not ICE specific:

  • Steering wheel lock mechanism sticking
  • Air distribution flap cables kinked/binding so A/C only blew at feet
  • Central locking on side door sticking
  • Rear shocks leaking
  • Front strut mount bushings worn
  • Head unit not functioning

Presumably the previous owner just didn't want to spend the money on fixing these issues as they arose, and eventually it added up into a lot of potential expense (if you have to pay someone to fix it for you) and more reasons to sell the car. Such behaviour seems pretty common in my experience and I fully expect it to continue with EVs. It'll be hard enough to get people to even maintain their brakes and change the motor coolant considering the natural reluctance of people to spend money on maintenance and this unfortunately prevalent idea that EVs don't need it.

Funnily enough the main ICE specific problem with that van was just as much an electrical issue as part of the petrol engine - an intermittent secondary air injection error code which ended up being down to a combination of a sticking valve and a fuse with a hairline crack causing an intermittent connection.

[–] soEZ@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Exactly this...in new cars its not the transmission or engine failure that causes it to be junked but rather all the rubber/ plastic bits going to shit and costing an arm and a leg to replace...

[–] Chadus_Maximus@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah. Markass Brownie got his Tesla in an accident. Repairs? More than 50% of sticker price. Sure you can throw the chassis out and put on a new one, but what about a hundred little sensors that also need troubleshooting, repair and calibration? Gotta go through them one by one.

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[–] phx@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

A lot of this also comes back to asshole design, and EV's can be particularly bad for this. Switching to large touch "entertainment" displays is a major issue. With my last ICE (Honda) vehicle, it was integrated into the backup+side cameras and a few comfort/convenience features. I could still replace that with a new head unit, though only certain ones would still support the cameras.

My wife's EV (Hyundai) on the other hand, the console isn't really made in a way where it seems swappable, and even if it was there are major system functions - such as configuring charge/power settings - which can only be configured from that (or the dogshyte app that screws up often and requires a paid subscription after 3yr)

[–] gnu@lemmy.zip 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, the move towards integrating the infotainment further into the car with propitiatory parts instead of generic sizes and not separating out vehicle related controls is definitely going to make long term upkeep harder.

[–] phx@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago

Not just that but that the "infotainment" system is getting further and further integrated with vehicle controls

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[–] jabjoe@feddit.uk 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Seriously, no one is going to mention "Right To Repair"? If this was law, and companies had to divulge how there stuff worked and was assembled, as well as sell parts, things would last longer. If every trade zone had a repairablity index, competition would make things last longer still.

[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

States have had no trouble passing and enforcing IP law that allows companies to get away with this. Reverse engineering would be the norm for closed source anything to the point it would be made irrelevant if companies didn't have the overwhelming weight of the legal system on their side to shut down anyone who dares try open up access to their designs.

Right to repair is great, but we are fighting against the entire weight of the entrenched ruling class to get it passed. It's going to take a lot of activism, and even then it's almost certainly going to be watered down and cater to large corporations when it does pass. We need to keep the pressure on them.

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[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago

so do most electronics.

but you know, line must go up.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Planned obsolence should be illegal

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