this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Plays stupid games, win stupid prizes as the saying goes.

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[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Plays stupid games, win stupid prizes as the saying goes.

Oh no, what will the US do? I mean, apart from producing it domestically or sourcing it from other counties because it's not a particularly rare element and the refinement process uses waste from things like aluminum smelting.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure, a few decades later US may figure out all the tech needed to mine and refine gallium, develop mines, build refineries, train workers, and so on. In the meantime, Chinese companies will be dominating the tech market while western companies starve.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We actually produce gallium in the US already, the technology for refining it is well established, and you don't actually mine it directly because it doesn't really occur by itself - it's commonly derived in bauxite, which is mined for it's aluminum content, which I why I mentioned waste products form aluminum refinement, because that's the most common source for industrial production. Also, other countries can do this, too

But, sure.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

here's a reality check for you

[–] GiuseppeAndTheYeti@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You keep using this chart, but it doesn't mean anything. Just because most countries don't produce Gallium, doesn't mean that they're not easily capable of it. It's just cheaper for companies to source Chinese gallium. If it were in sharp demand, it would become profitable for domestic refineries to produce.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 year ago

It means that producing gallium is going to require a significant amount of time. You can't just magically will mines, refineries, and supply chains into existence. This is going to take years to do. Meanwhile, since China has fully domestic supply chains right now, it's going to be Chinese companies dominating the global market while these alternative supply chains are built out for western companies.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You know that we can grow the industry in the US pretty trivially, right? And, again, other countries can and do produce it? You're presenting this as some massive win, when it's really just someone observing that we should fix that before it becomes a serious problem.

Alas, this isn't a big deal and you're going to have to look elsewhere for the defeat of the west. Sorry!

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I absolutely know that US is not capable of growing industry trivially. In fact, industry only accounts of around 11% of US GDP at this point. There is also no skilled labour needed to grow the industry. Here's just one example of that https://www.popsci.com/technology/stinger-missiles-raytheon-ukraine/

Meanwhile, as the chart very clearly shows, other countries produce negligible amounts of gallium. Ramping up production of that overnight isn't going to happen. The real point here is that gallium and germanium are just a couple of items where China is a bottleneck, and restricting their export is simply demonstration. There are plenty of other things China can cut going forward if US continues to play this game.

[–] fist_of_fartitude@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] APassenger@lemmy.one -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

China can have a near vertical climb in production (your chart) but no one else can?

The vertical change takes planning and time, but no one has a lock on it. Especially if it becomes a strategic resource (and it has).

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

China spent decades investing into their industry, and developing the skills needed to have the vertical climb we're seeing. Nobody has a lock on it, and I never said that others can't do it. What I said was that it will take significant time to do, and Chinese companies will have a market advantage during that time.

It's also worth pointing out that the reason China is able to do these things is due to the fact that it retained ability to do state planning and it has large scale state owned industry. On the other hand, US ended up being largely deindustrialized because it's run by financial capitalists who don't see such industry as being profitable. I recommend reading this article explaining the dynamics of this https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/08/the-value-of-nothing-capital-versus-growth/

US would need to either provide massive subsidies for businesses to make this appealing or create its own state industry. Seems to me that neither option is likely given the current political climate in US and the financial situation it finds itself in.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's strange that you're down voted for this. If I was in the US, I would care very deeply about why my economy was like it is and how it could be fixed.

Even if I didn't agree with the China model, I would appreciate a rigorous analysis the pointed out the flaws in my country's own model. Perhaps the most curious thing is that—and I may be wrong—the people down voting you probably see themselves as patriotic Americans.

You're not even saying anything that mainstream economists like Ha-Joon Chang might say.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Turns out any suggestion that China is able to do something that US can't is not something people coming from reddit can tolerate.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who knew this is the kind of logic that a society built on white supremacy would lead to?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I'm shocked as well.

[–] ijeff@lemdro.id 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a Canadian, this was not the CSIS I was expecting.

[–] bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Same, they're stealing our acronyms!

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago

Acronym Monopoly: the Center for Strategic & International Studies' control over CSIS is a national security threat for Canada.

[–] boyi@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

Aside from the issue, the web (mobile) layout is quite interesting and most advanced I've come across. At first I thought it was a bug in the web design, but once I realised how it works, I started to enjoy the reading as it was quite engaging.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doubt you have any clue on the subject.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just because you can't read or interpret most of the articles or dara you spew out doesn't mean the rest of us are similarly challenged.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, I think you've given us plenty of proof of just how challenged you are. Your lack of self awareness is just a cherry on top. You're like the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, of course you think that. From the false data you constantly propagandize, you demonstrably believe that no means yes and 1 = 4

Telling that Dunning-Kruger is the first technical term you bring up that you might actually know the definition of.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, any data that you don't like is obviously false. 😂

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Any data that is not independently verified (ie, your hopeful propaganda), I don't like.

Unlike you, I don't chill for a single entity, I simply like people to be properly and fairly informed.

You can refer back to the article that has actual data from multiple countries that count the number of false data used in Chinese scientific articles. If you're confused about actual data versus wishful thinking.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, CSIS, a famous Chinese propaganda outlet. 😂

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, purporting an argument for another since you can't counter their actual point.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is no actual point to counter. You're evidently claiming that CSIS data is not reliable and called it Chinese propaganda. I can't believe you provide this level of entertainment at no charge.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whatever your reason for doubting CSIS is, dont attributed to me. You have plenty on your plate as it is without making up claims by others.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not the one doubting CSIS who made the report that China's gallium restriction are a national security threat to US.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, if you read reports from more than one country, you might not blindly believe every headline you specifically search for.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Really should take your own advice there.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm constantly questioning myself. That's why it's so easy for me to discredit your propaganda.

You might want to read the articles connected to some of those headlines you frantically copy and paste, and then look for corroborating verified articles from a different source. Yhen, come to your own conclusion that cannot be refuted according to the data you've gathered(stop making unverifiable claims that are so easily refuted is a good first step), and you might actually be able to make a coherent post!

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you think that making glib comments full of personal attacks is what discrediting means then you're about as smart as I thought you were.

[–] APassenger@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Jesus you're prolific and ubiquitous.

You win the glib trophy on this branch. Not them.

You really need to check yourself. You are galvanizing people into positions you want them to move off of. Are you doing this on purpose?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And here you are again. I don't expect the other commenter to move off their position, it's pretty clear they're as galvanized as it gets at this point. There is no productive discussion possible there. I don't know why you'd pretend otherwise.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personal attacks? That's your style(you've said "your shithole country, dummy, sniffing glue". I attack propaganda.

Keep it up though, it is funny when you prove yourself wrong like this.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago

I follow a simple principle of engaging people on their level. When you sealion into my threads to make vapid comments and personal attacks, don't be surprised when you get called out for it. What's really funny is that I live rent free in your head, and you follow me around like a lost puppy.

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