I’m inclined to trust the man who has overseen two masterpieces back-to-back in botw and totk.
this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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Plus calling it a linear-vs-openworld is a bit weird considering that neither were old Zelda games fully linear, nor are the two newest games fully open. In a lot of ways, the newer games just removed the walls that previously blocked your sight of other parts of the world. You can see what is there, and in a lot of ways you can go there, but plenty parts are also indirectly locked off due to needing specific armor or quests. Just like in older games you could wander around but might eventually hit walls requiring items.
Id say that wall is a pretty soft wall though. And to Arlos point, the building mechanic allows you to cheese through a lot of it.
If Arlo wanted people to be less salty about his video, he should have not made that dumb thumbnail. I get its for the clicks and the youtube alg. Hes not even saying either one is better than the other in the video. If anything hes saying the Zelda team should find a balance.
SS was primarily linear and Breath/Tear was were primary open ended. Finding a middle ground is definitely doable and that's all that Arlo is saying.
Another thing I'm not seeing people mention is that the world in previous zeldas were a puzzle in and of themselves. You had dungeons, but you also had towns and the overworld puzzles that gave you better items or access to new areas. The new zelda games only have the shrines (which are usually small one room puzzles).
I would far from call the new zeldas masterpieces, but I think my main worry is that he seems like he might be incapable of breaking the formula.
I'm fully expecting the next game to be breath of the wild 3, with a new gimmick but basically the same. And for a series as varied as the zelda series that is fairly sad.
I don’t know what to say to someone who doesn’t feel like totk was enough of an innovation but to each their own.
I would say look at the difference between LttP, OoT, wind waker, twilight princess, skyward sword, and botw. Then look at the difference between botw and totk.
The former has every game feeling like a unique thing, I grew up being excited for this new world. Totk isn't that.
I know people love this game, yourself included. But keeping perspective is important too, or else you end up with Nintendoa arogant side where they get stuck making the same core experience over and over. You want nintendos interesting new experiences side.
I'd day TotK is to BotW what MM was to OoT.
Lots of the same assets and gameplay/animations, completely different feel.
That’s fair, but again these people have proven they know what they’re doing. Criticising this dev team after a misstep I can get, criticising them in the light of the two games they’ve just delivered just seems like talking for the sake of talking. I grew up with MM being a direct sequel to OoT, I’m fine with building on an already great game. I doubt they’ll let the series stagnate.
I'm worried, given statements they have made, that they will. I fully expect that their next game will be botw 3, same map, new coat of paint for switch 2.
It's not worth complaining about this until it actually happens, of course, I'm just actively worried that we've lost something
Didn't they state that their next game would not be a totk sequel?
I don't have a Switch so I haven't played any of the new Zeldas but...I'm so tired of open world games in general
The world is open. The actual plot of the gameplay isn't really open. It's probably more accurate to call it branching in that there are multiple paths to reach the end. Some branches are critical. Some branches are just for fun. Some branches give you tools either in game or in the form of practice to help you with later stages of the game. Some branches bring you back to the main story. Some branches seem like dead ends. And all of the Zelda games I've played have been more or less like this to varying degrees. Yes, even the older games. Obviously the guy in this video never played the older games without a walkthrough guide close at hand. The old game gave you clues, but rarely explicitly forced you down a linear path. There were always some things you had to do before other things, but there was never anything stopping you from just wandering around fighting baddies and playing like the world was open. I spent so much time wandering around the world of many of the games just talking to people to figure out a puzzle or clue I'd missed. I wouldn't call that linear or open world, it's neither and both. And I think Zelda games have generally balanced that pretty well.
All these videos seem to just be creating controversy to get views.
Nah Arlo has always been known to just say what's in his mind and not deliberately stirring up controversy. This is how he genuinely feels. He's also shown to very knowledgeable about game design.
Also not sure how you missed it but a lot of fans have shown dissatisfaction about this current formula. Arlo is just adding to the already current situation.
Your statement about branches is only a small piece of the puzzle. Branching across the new Zelda formula has left intricate puzzles behind. Yes all Zelda have this branching you speak of but now those branches are unlocked with Legos instead of rubics cubes.
There's no reason we can't have both toys in the same game and that's what people want.
Personally I think Aonuma talks big cuz it his personality. He's been talking like this for years. But he listens. I wouldn't be surprised if he brings tighter dungeons and puzzles back.
Also not sure how you missed it but a lot of fans have shown dissatisfaction about this current formula. Arlo is just adding to the already current situation.
I didn't miss it. I just think it's confirmation bias. You're seeing a lot of very vocal people that claim to be fans. Obviously the fans that don't have any complaints are quieter.
I've played almost all the big Zelda titles and your comment about the puzzles just doesn't make any sense. Each game uses the various game mechanics as an integral part of the puzzles. Obviously those will be different from game to game. What reasonable complaint is there to be made there?
I was actually excited that the dungeons in TOTK (especially the gerudo dungeon) felt more like the dungeons in A Link To The Past. But that doesn't mean I'd be interested in just redoing old ideas for the new games. I want them to keep trying new things, pushing boundaries, and annoying the vocal Internet gaming police.
I've never finished an open world Zelda. I get bored after about twenty hours.
I would prefer an old school style top down Zelda and will pick up Tunic when it's on sale again. Playing rogue heroes which is a multiplayer Zelda rogue like rn and will probably put more hours into it then I did tears
I put Tunic over BOTW and TOTK. It really shows how a focused and limited world enables a much more engaging game. It reminds me a lot of ALttP and Links Awakening; potentially even better (although the combat can be a bit hit or miss).
I'll check it out for sure. Maybe have my kid help me finish if I get stuck!
Prepare for a hardcore zelda-like game with Tunic. I couldn't finish it for the life of me, too frustrating even though I kinda got through 70% of it
for me it's not that i dislike open world games, it's more like i dislike open world games that just have you walking for hours with barely anything to keep you interested...
from what i've experienced, BOTW and TOTK are exactly like this
Im going to preface with saying that I think TotK is a good game. I put over 100 hours into and really enjoyed my time with it. I likely will not return to it, or BotW, but that's just me. Mainly because there are too many other great games in the world to spend my limited time on this planet with.
But even thought I like it, I can be critical of it. Maybe because its everybody's new baby and no one wants to criticize a cute helpless baby. But once that baby has aged into a teenager, then the criticizing can come out. What Im saying is I get peoples reluctance to criticize Totk so soon and i bet as it ages, people will have more to say. So being critical isn't a bad thing even this early on. Its not the perfect game and the Zelda team can definitely improve in future iterations. If anything I still see TotK a stepping stone to something bigger down the line.