this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025
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[–] teije9@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)
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Most intellectuals are socialist

[–] NutWrench@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (3 children)

"The good of the people" is a noble goal. The problem is that for the most part, people who deliberately seek power to lead these groups are vain, greedy, selfish, brutal assholes.

Collectivism, as Karl Marx wrote it, has never been practiced in any so-called "communist" country on Earth. It's always been an oligarchy.

[–] nialv7@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

OP is talking about socialism, not communism?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (11 children)

Kinda. Einstein here is referring to an eventual fully publicly owned and collectivrly planned economy in a world republic, which is what Communists aspire to. Communism is that world-government stage, Socialism is the process of building towards that stage. So, when Einstein espouses the necessity of Socialism, he means in the process of building towards Communism.

All Communists are at first Socialists, because that's the most immediate stage to reach.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

I think Parenti said it best, in Blackshirts and Reds:

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

To that end, Marx's conception of Socialism, that being a state run by the proletariat along the lines of a publicly owned and planned economy, has existed in many areas, and does to this day. These are called "AES" states. You're partially correct in that no AES state has made it to the historical stage of Communism, which requires a global world government and a publicly owned and planned economy.

I think you would gain a lot from reading some books on AES states, such as Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and Is the Red Flag Flying? Political Economy of the Soviet Union. These aren't "oligarchies," or whatnot, but Socialism in existence, warts and all. We need to learn from what worked and what didn't to progress onwards, it's clear that Capitalism is in a death spiral and Socialism remains the way forward.

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[–] NekoKamiGuru@ttrpg.network 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The idea of socialism has a lot of appeal .

That is why wannabe tyrants latch onto it .

[–] redut_nl@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 0 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Indeed

"The economic disasters of socialism and communism come from assuming a blanket superiority of those who want to run a whole economy. Thomas Sowell " If the tyrant is going to use AI to control people we will be entering a dystopian nightmare. The smaller the government and the less influence they have on your personal life the better. This doesn't apply to socialism only but also fascism. Free speech, liberty and property rights should be the core values of every society.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

First off, Sowell is a crank economist that purely exists to push deregulation and allow for higher and higher exploitation of the working class for the benefit of the Capialist class.

Secondly, the economy is already planned, just by those directing it for their personal enrichment. Socialism changes that equation to be planned along a common goal, and democratizes that process.

Thirdly, Socialism and Communism have been economic successes, you'll notice that the "disasters" are left undescribed. Rapid industrialization, stable and constant growth, and massive infrastructure improvements and projects have been staples of Socialist economies, and by and large the Working Class saw the most dramatic improvements.

Finally, there is the non-sequitor of "free speech, liberty, and property rights." Not only are the first 2 entirely unrelated to Capitalism and Socialism, just vague "values," the latter has nothing to do with personal liberty, but the ability of few small individuals to carve out the bulk of society and build their own kingdoms on the backs of the working class.

[–] redut_nl@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 0 points 6 days ago (15 children)

crank economist?

Really? Ever read basic economics? Even if you don't agree with everything he says, by stating he is a crank economist you are disqualifying yourself.

https://rumble.com/v4u4a8i-basic-economics-by-thomas-sowell.html?e9s=src_v1_pr

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

In general, actually, Socialism has a better track record than Capitalism when it comes to "tyrants." You should read Blackshirts and Reds.

[–] Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And the name of that Albert Einstein...?

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[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Also, Einstein was offered a position as leader of the State of Israel. He basically said "fuck off and fuck Zionism."

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

socialism might be nice but just getting rid of billionaires is a great start.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Can't do that without taking supremacy of Capital. There is no path to keep billionaires from existing within Capitalism.

[–] rando895@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

We could always introduce a purge. Maybe every 5-10 years (random) the 10 wealthiest individuals must fight to the death. Win or lose they lose all their money and have to start over. Its like the Olympics. And they can use their money to equip themselves, with tech and weapons.

Its like the Olympics

But yeah capitalism is no bueno

[–] markinov@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In capitalism, the wealthiests make the rule, not us.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

I'd say Capital itself makes the rules, the wealthiest just try to guess at those rules the best they can. The M-C-M' circuit isn't very "human" in design, it's more like a law of nature for this level of development.

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[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I would expect so. I said "but" as in, "even if we just do this and dont carry out other requirements immediately" kind of "but"

[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

i don't think we can get rid of them without socialism

[–] tomi000@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I think a certain italian plumber says otherwise.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

The thing with Adventurism is that it doesn't change anything. The path to getting rid of billionaires requires organizing and toppling the system that necessarily gives rise to them, not by killing them as they crop up. Luigi played a valuable role in showing the Working Class that, actually, they have more in common with each other in their shared hatred of their natural enemy, but he didn't get us any closer to taking down that system.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago

I don't know, it also seems very difficult to achieve world wide socialism. but then again it is also hard to cull people's desire to become powerful over others. there will always be those aspiring to become billionaires but yet it seems easier to motivate majority of humans to do away with billionaires then to convince them to accept socialism.

[–] 51dz31@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago

I think this short essay was the first essay that appeared in monthly review

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