this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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The reason we don’t see exploding battery attacks more often is not because it’s technically hard, it’s because the erosion of public trust in everyday things isn’t worth it. (www.bunniestudios.com)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by cypherpunks@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.world
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edit: after 20 comments, i'm adding a post description here, since most of the commenters so far appear not to be reading the article:

This is about how surprisingly cheap it is (eg $15,000) to buy a complete production line to be able to manufacture batteries with a layer of nearly-undetectable explosives inside of them, which can be triggered by off-the-shelf devices with only their firmware modified.

screenshot of paragraph from the article saying "The process to build such batteries is well understood and documented. Here is an excerpt from one vendor’s site promising to sell the equipment to build batteries in limited quantities (tens-to-hundreds per batch) for as little as $15,000:" followed by a screenshot of "Flow-chart of Pouch Cell Lab-scale Fabrication" showing a 20 step process

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

And also because it's impossible.

So it is actually in fact very hard. What they had was exploding explosives which are not hard.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Since apparently many people aren't reading the article: It is about how cheap it actually is (eg $15,000) to buy a complete production line to be able to manufacture batteries with a layer of nearly-undetectable explosives inside of them, which can be triggered by off-the-shelf devices with only their firmware modified.

screenshot of paragraph from the article saying "The process to build such batteries is well understood and documented. Here is an excerpt from one vendor’s site promising to sell the equipment to build batteries in limited quantities (tens-to-hundreds per batch) for as little as $15,000:" followed by a screenshot of "Flow-chart of Pouch Cell Lab-scale Fabrication" showing a 20 step process

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[–] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago

I don't think terrorists care about the people's trust in everyday things

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

Lithium burns intensely but it doesn't explode. An electric car can burn for a long time, but they don't explode. One of the comments says so

I understand that what happened in Libanon was that dedicated explosives were added to the devices, it was not the batteries exploding. But that does not take away the conclusion of your story.

It shouldn't be undetectable. Throw a device from s series into a fire as a spot check and if it burns it's ok, if it explodes give the entire series to your enemy's kids to play with.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Did you read the article? It sounds like you didn't.

[–] iamanurd@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Are you able to say anything but that?

[–] sepi@piefed.social 0 points 2 months ago

Not capable of saying anything else.

[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago

Throw a device from s series into a fire as a spot check and if it burns it's ok, if it explodes give the entire series to your enemy's kids to play with.

Most high explosives burn unless detonated properly.

This is really basic stuff. I don’t think you should be out and about giving people advice about handling (potential) explosives.

[–] NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I am not an explosives expert, but I've seen enough YouTube videos about explosives to know that not all explosives explode in fire. Some are incredibly stable at extreme conditions right up until deliberately triggered. It all depends on the type of explosives.

There may still be ways to detect them, but it's not necessarily going to be that simple.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yes that's correct high explosives require a starter explosive. However this starter explosive would also have to be incorporated into the device and the starter explosive is triggered by a spark or a fire. So throwing it in a fire would still work as a test you'd just have to make sure it totally melted before concluding anything.

[–] Uranium_Green@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago

They don't necessarily require a starter explosive, certain types do of course. It's more about overcoming the initial energy required, for example the arc from an electric arc lighter could probably overcome that requirement in a lot of scenarios.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

It depends on the explosive, C-4, and I think all plastic explosives, will burn in a fire.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Heads up, I don't think C4 explodes when burned. I think it requires electronic detonation or a blasting cap.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's right next to or in a high intensity lithium fire, not just a normal little flame. That should alter the equation somewhat.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago

It's possible that it could, but could also not. I'd be curious to find out what would happen but unfortunately the feds won't let me run tests on semtex because I don't have "the proper permits." Jerks.

Maybe we'll see someone with a license to manufacture destructive devices, like OrdinanceLab on YT, do a video on it (fingers crossed!)

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[–] Bsher8365@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

This is seriously one of the more terrifying things I’ve read lately.

[–] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Jfc Christ Lemmy.

Every single comment misunderstanding the point. The batteries are exploding because there's explosives in them. This does make them exploding batteries. The explode because they are partially made with explosives. Please don't well actually this.

No this is not a description of something Israel did, it's a hypothetical way to do a similar attack to show how within reach of idiot terrorists it is.

Raising the idea of doing this so everyone is thinking about it is extremely bad for us all. Thanks Israel.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Jfc Christ Lemmy.Every single comment misunderstanding the point.

Pedantics fighting pedantics LOL

The batteries are exploding because there's explosives in them. This does make them exploding batteries.

And when you put the same explosives inside a barbie doll and make it go off, then it wasn't an exploding barbie doll. Or was it? ;-)

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Fun fact, a group of pedants is called a flem. To use it in a sentence: "the party was ruined by a flem of pedants".

[–] boatswain@infosec.pub 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Pedantics fighting pedantics LOL

I think you mean "pedants fighting pedants" :p

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[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

No, it doesn't. The battery itself is not the source of the explosion, it's the explosive hidden inside it.

A regular battery cannot be made to explode in this way.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Please don't well actually this.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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[–] Tikiporch@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

I think there may be a couple edits needed in your comment. Reread slowly and get back to us.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

JFC Christ, does anyone know where the nearest ATM Machine is?

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[–] femtech@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

That does not make them exploding batteries, it had explosives in them. A suicide bomber is not an explosive human.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They're batteries. And they are explosive because of the explosives in them. They are discrete things that are explosives.

You're trying to make a weird, un-useful, pedantic distinction here.

Comment you replied to was making a far more useful correction, because people did not read the article.

[–] femtech@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago

It's a needed distinction because the Israeli committed more war crimes with what they did.

[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

A suicide bomber is not an explosive human but they are an exploding human.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Even though your edit clarified it, I wish we’d stop calling them “exploding batteries”. The battery isn’t the explosive, it’s the explosives that were hidden in the device. I’ve already encountered far too many morons describing conspiracies where the big bad government could make your iPhone explode.

[–] grudan@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago

Title felt misleading.

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[–] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

But I don't want my devices to be bombs

[–] PenisDuckCuck9001@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'm saving this. Not because I want to make bombs, but if it really is that easy to make lithium batteries then knowing about the process will be beneficial someday. It's hard to find information about how rechargeable batteries work. You probably couldn't even make a lead acid battery from raw materials using just information on the internet.

[–] ashar@infosec.pub 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sending out IEDs that will probably explode in a supermarket and kill civilians is generally considered a war crime. So far 2 kids killed in Beirut by the Israeli bombs in devices.

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[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

We don't see exploding batteries more because most militaries are better about securing their supply chain.

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