this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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Social media platforms like Twitter and Reddit are increasingly infested with bots and fake accounts, leading to significant manipulation of public discourse. These bots don't just annoy users—they skew visibility through vote manipulation. Fake accounts and automated scripts systematically downvote posts opposing certain viewpoints, distorting the content that surfaces and amplifying specific agendas.

Before coming to Lemmy, I was systematically downvoted by bots on Reddit for completely normal comments that were relatively neutral and not controversial​ at all. Seemed to be no pattern in it... One time I commented that my favorite game was WoW, down voted -15 for no apparent reason.

For example, a bot on Twitter using an API call to GPT-4o ran out of funding and started posting their prompts and system information publicly.

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chatgpt-bot-x-russian-campaign-meme/

Example shown here

Bots like these are probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands. They did a huge ban wave of bots on Reddit, and some major top level subreddits were quiet for days because of it. Unbelievable...

How do we even fix this issue or prevent it from affecting Lemmy??

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[–] AsudoxDev@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You can't get rid of bots, nor spammers. The only thing is that you can have a more aggressive automated punishment system, which will unevitably also punish good users, along with the bad users.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

One argument in favor of bots on social media is their ability to automate routine tasks and provide instant responses. For example, bots can handle customer service inquiries, offer real-time updates, and manage repetitive interactions, which can enhance user experience and free up human moderators for more complex tasks. Additionally, they can help in disseminating important information quickly and efficiently, especially in emergency situations or for public awareness campaigns.

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[–] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

You don't.

You employ critical thinking skills in all interactions on the web.

[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

By being small and unimportant

[–] Absolute_Axoltl@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago

Excellent. That's basically my super power.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

How do we even fix this issue or prevent it from affecting Lemmy??

Simple. Just scream that everyone whose opinion you dislike is a bot.

[–] P1nkman@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

I disagree with this statement, so Ensign_Crab must be a bot. Reported.

[–] beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I admit I’ve been guilty of this in the past, so sarcasm aside I cannot recommend this as a strategy for detecting actual bots … even though if you’re parroting the opinion those who have power & control bots wish you to believe, expressing that opinion makes one’s post functionally equivalent to that of a bot. I KNOW, SUE ME 🤷‍♂️

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[–] pop@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Internet is not a place for public discourse, it never was. it's the game of numbers where people brigade discussions and make it confirm to their biases.

Post something bad about the US with facts and statistics in US centric reddit sub, youtube video or article, and see how it divulges into brigading, name calling and racism. Do that on lemmy.ml to call out china/russia. Go to youtube videos with anything critical about India.

For all countries with massive population on the internet, you're going to get bombarded with lies, delfection, whataboutism and strawman. Add in a few bots and you shape the narrative.

There's also burying bad press with literally downvoting and never interacting.

Both are easy on the internet when you've got the brainwashed gullible mass to steer the narrative.

[–] DandomRude@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Well, unfortunately, the internet and especially social media is still the main source of information for more and more people, if not the only one. For many, it is also the only place where public discourse takes place, even if you can hardly call it that. I guess we are probably screwed.

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

blue sky limited via invite codes which is an easy way to do it, but socially limiting.

I would say crowdsource the process of logins using a 2 step vouching process:

  1. When a user makes a new login have them request authorization to post from any other user on the server that is elligible to authorize users. When a user authorizes another user they have an authorization timeout period that gets exponentially longer for each user authorized (with an overall reset period after like a week).

  2. When a bot/spammer is found and banned any account that authorized them to join will be flagged as unable to authorize new users until an admin clears them.

Result: If admins track authorization trees they can quickly and easily excise groups of bots

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[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  1. Make bot accounts a separate type of account so legitimate bots don't appear as users. These can't vote, are filtered out of post counts and users can be presented with more filtering option for them. Bot accounts are clearly marked.

  2. Heavily rate limit any API that enables posting to a normal user account.

  3. Make having a bot on a human user account bannable offence and enforce it strongly.

[–] zkfcfbzr@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

filtered out of post counts

Revolutionary. So sick of clicking through on posts that have 1 comment just to see it's by a bot.

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[–] Metz@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Long before cryptocurrencies existed, proof-of-work was already being used to hinder bots. For every post, vote, etc., a cryptographic task has to be solved by the device used for it. Imperceptibly fast for the normal user, but for a bot trying to perform hundreds or thousands of actions in a row, a really annoying speed bump.

See e.g. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash

This combined with more classic blockades such as CAPTCHAs (especially image recognition, which is still expensive in mass despite the advances in AI) should at least represent a first major obstacle.

[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Why resort to an expensive decentralized mechanism when we already have a client-server model? We can just implement rate-limiting on the server.

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[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

A chain/tree of trust. If a particular parent node has trusted a lot of users that proves to be malicious bots, you break the chain of trust by removing the parent node. Orphaned real users would then need to find a new account that is willing to trust them, while the bots are left out hanging.

Not sure how well it would work on federated platforms though.

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[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

by embracing methods of verifying that a user is a real person

[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)
[–] CluckN@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

Making them multiply prime numbers.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Usually by tying your real world identity to your screen name, with your ID or mail or something.

[–] Sabata11792@ani.social 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Thats the opposite of something to embrace.

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

I think the larger problem is that we are now trying to be non-controversal to avoid downvotes.

Who thinks it's a good idea to self censor on social media? Because that's what you are doing, because of the downvote system.

I will never agree downvotes are a net positive. They create censorship and allows the ignorant mob or bots to push down things they don't like reading.

Bots make it worse of course, since they can just downvote whatever they are programmed to downvote, and upvote things that they want to be visible. Basically it's like having an army of minions to manipulate entire platforms.

All because of downvotes and upvotes. Of course there should be a way to express that you agree or disagree but should that affect visibility directly? I don't think so.

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[–] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

One time I commented that my favorite game was WoW, down voted -15 for no apparent reason.

I wouldn't use that as evidence that you were bot-attacked. A lot of people don't like WoW and are mad at it for disappointing them. *coughSHADOWLANDScough*

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