I wasn't going to get a new car any time soon. And my next car was going to be a Kia Soul. But I went with another brand. The Kia/Hyundai brace is hot right now. Crackheads and thieves aren't trying to figure out if your car is affected, you still end up with an inoperpable car. Maybe in a few years it will die down.
this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2024
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My car was never affected in the first place and I'm still getting fucked by my insurance saying it's a "theft risk" charging out the ass
us insurance sounds lovely
They are awful lying cunts
I’d guess a result of the dumber criminals not knowing what specific models are vulnerable. This fiasco tainted the entire brand.
Insurance companies like to claim they've done all the math and research but they're just lazy asses looking for any reason to raise rates.
Tell me about it, my rate over tripled.
Sue Kia for the difference in small claims.
Has biometric been considered for cars? I mean it’s used for phones and computers, why no cars. Maybe in addition to a key/fob. If it senses the fox and your biometrics (either finger or face or both even) it will start the car. If the car doesn’t recognize your biometrics, then you need to enter the key in the vehicle to start it. If it recognizes you can start it.
I have never had a phone that has successfully unlocked the first time using biometrics. I wouldn't say it is a solved problem or a solution. There are also implications with law enforcement when using biometrics. They can't force you to unlock something with a password, but they can forcefully unlock something with your fingerprint.
The older fingerprint readers that were on the back or below the screen worked perfectly and near-instantly (I've used several Nexus, Pixel and Moto phones).
At least some of the newer in-screen readers are slow and unreliable. I've heard that the ultrasonic ones are better.
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We've already solved this issue without biometrics. The manufacturers just cheaped out on actually implementing it in the affected models.
Given that car manufacturers cannot stop themselves from sending fuckloads of data about drivers, I do not want them to have any biometric scanners whatsoever.
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You’ll still get a broken window and steering column because the thieves can’t tell if the car has had the update or not and will still attempt to steal it.
Can confirm. Happened to a friend within the past month. Theirs wasn't even on the list of affected models.
I have a Kia and got the software upgrade; they put a little red sticker on your windows saying the vehicle is equipped with anti-theft software.
But something tells me most thieves aren’t checking for a sticker before they smash the window…
You would all lough to your grave if you would see how shit is the immo system in these cars are. To add a new key to a car you have to read immo data of the car and than decode it to get a password to make the key. In these cars you just sit in the car, make the car go into add key mode and than just touch the key to antena, and thats it, no passwords no immo data reading.
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Hyundai and Kia upgraded their cars' anti-theft tech in early 2023. Vehicles equipped with the enhanced software will only start if the owner's key, or an identical duplicate, is in the ignition.
Fucking.... What? A 2023 anti theft technology upgrade added the space age cutting edge concept of starting the car with... the key?
If my car could start without the key in the bloody ignition I'd be furious, that's what the key is for, haha. You can add extra doohickeys to enhance security, but the first line of defence is the key that starts the car.
Absolute madness.
Watch the channel 5 Kia boys episode. It was really fucking easy to steal kia's n Hyundai's. Took the guy like 30 seconds to do it. You just ripped a piece of plastic off, and jammed a USB cord into the ignition, turned it, and off u went. They encountered one of these updated ones and failed as well.
Warning, the Kia boys are fucking insufferable twats.
🤯 this is so fucked up Like, is this cyperpunk coming true?
always has been. we live in cyberpunk dystopia
Luckily my country is not that far into the cyberpunk transition (yet?) 😮
No this is how every car was stolen prior to the 90s/00s. The "USB cord" is a red herring as the shape of the USB-A port just happens to match the remaining bit of the ignition cylinder once the lock has been removed, but journalists love to hype that part up as if this is some technological attack.
I was not talking about the fact of how easy it is to steal, it was more about the society described. Gave me similar feelings like when I watched the first episode of the cyberpunk anime.
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Keyless start is fucking awesome though, just get in the car and drive. I wouldn't even consider a car without after having one with it. Pretty much all other manufacturers have this in a safe way that doesn't make the cars easier to steal. Its not the keyless start that's the issue, its how they implemented it.
I mean, many new cars don't even have an old school key ignition at all.
A lot of smart key cars are vulnerable to relay attacks. It's not a solved security issue by any means.
AFAIK they're not anymore vulnerable than central locking systems
Yes they are, because keyless listens to the car asking for authorization, so you can amplify the car signal hoping the key is not too far off, and unlock the car without any other work.
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What’s more, all keyless cars still have a fob with proximity and if the fob dies, they legally have to have a way to start the car without the fob battery which is why they all have an nfc reader somewhere (usually in a cup holder) so you can put you dead fob on it and the car will start like normal.
All keyless start kias and hyundais are/were immune to the Kia boys trick
So what was the exploit then? They could get in to the car without the key?
No engine immobilizer was the ultimate issue. And from what I understand, it was just an issue with models sold in the US, so all this misery was caused by a manufacturer’s cost saving measure.
ETA: To clarify, the cause was a manufacturer’s cost saving measure enabled by the US regulations’ lack of a requirement for engine immobilizers.
Yeah, by breaking the window. Then they rip out the ignition cylinder and turn the electrical switch just like on old cars. They didn't put any kind of electronics into the key to prevent this from happening. Most keys from about 1999+ have an NFC type "chip" in them that prevents the car from starting without a key that is programmed to the car.
Aah, so it actually has absolutely nothing to do with keyless access and driving like most seem to complain about.
Still, it would be cool if they didn't charge hundreds of dollars for a replacement key that costs them a couple bucks.
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I don't know this to be a fact, but we own a Kia targeted by this whole 'challenge' business, and my understanding is that this issue is primarily because remote start was a factory installed feature for most of the generation and the "software update" that enhances security prevents remote starters from working.
I had my Sonata stolen last year. The problem is that, by default, there was neither a key checker nor a steering immobilizer built into the vehicles. These are industry standard features for every car manufacturer... Except Kia and Hyundai. These are required features in every car sold in every Western nation... Except the United States. To have excluded this literal 90s tech from their vehicles when they're so common that no one would ever stop to think about whether their car has them constitutes a serious lie by omission on the part of Kia and Hyundai, in my opinion. If I knew that all you had to do was rip off the ignition and shove something onto a peg to screw off with the car, I would have told the dealer to stick it up his butt.
For those wondering: I had comprehensive insurance, so I was paid the full value of the vehicle after it was totaled. I bought a Toyota Camry with the money and it's a great car. I am never buying Kia or Hyundai cars again and I recommend everyone else avoid them from here on out. Like, if this is what they're willing to do to save $30 per assembled vehicle, what else might be lurking in their newer vehicles that we won't know about until it's too late?
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They were vulnerable because they didn't use chipped keys therefore people could break the ignition cylinder off and rotate the actual switch behind it to start the car. Cars with immobilizers still wouldn't start even if you removed the lock cylinder because the sensor didn't detect the chip. This is basically how most all cars worked prior to the 90s/00s which is where the trope of "using a screwdriver to steal a car" came from.
I'm really curious how they were able to add this in using software alone since you'd need some sort of sensor to detect the key along with keys that have a chip embedded in them.
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I'm not buying this PR garbage. KIA and Hyundai thefts fall as cars lacking basic security hardware were stolen and wrecked until there are no more to steal and wreck.
Thank you for re-adding late 20th century tech to your 21st century cars. /s
A lot of cars in my neighborhood have been using a club to lock the steering wheel. Reminds me of the 80s-90s.
Those do absolutely nothing to stop someone from stealing a car as they attach to your steering wheel made of foam and plastic which takes seconds to cut through. They've only come back in to popularity due to grifters willing to sell people a false sense of security.
To be fair, they add another minute or two to the time it takes to steal the car.
I also feel these bars make your car harder to steal than the other car on the same block. If everyone is using them, you're car is again only as hard to steal as that other car on the block. This could make it a target again.
However, that update or a third party solution is going to do a whole lot more.
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Despite the fixes, theft claims for the affected Hyundai and Kia models continue to exceed industry norms, including for vehicles equipped with the upgraded software, according to HLDI. One reason could be that the software-based immobilizer only activates if the driver remembers to lock the vehicle with a fob, while many people are in the habit of using the switch on the door handle.
If ever there were a problem that is ripe for fixing with the first version of the software upgrade, not a future one, this was it.
I just had to purchase a vehicle. My insurance company basically asked me not to buy a KIA or Hyundai and warned that the premiums for those makes were super high.
Same. I was looking at cars and told my insurance, who then said, "If you get a KIA, you never have to worry about losing your car keys, since you can search online on how easy it is to break in."
That throwaway joke threw me into the rabbit hole of the Kia challenge. Definitely a shit show.
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Does this update cover the new issue where the keyless cars can be broken into?
https://insideevs.com/news/724328/hyundai-kia-ioniq-5-gameboy/
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Here's my simple solution: drive a super old car. My car:
- isn't worth stealing
- is immune to popular TikTok attacks because the tech is too old
- drives just fine
There are some downsides, but at least I don't have to deal with this nonsense.
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