Wonder what amazon's would be since they have AWS.
this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
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I don't see what's surprising here. They provide services for users globally. Not that it's justified, it's just kind of weird that people think global scale computing is light on electricity, apparently
Lots of people were just yelling the grid can't handle more load like for checking cars while Google adds a countries worth of power use with AI.
Don't forget to set you AC to 80 because the grid can't handle the load lol. That's exactly why this info is important, ecological solutions are somehow always trusted on individuals when the vast majority of the issue lies with corporations.
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Google builds entire datacenters with their own transformers and power lines, if not their own powerplants. You plug these datacenters directly into the high voltage networks that don't have big capacity problems.
The low voltage grids in residential areas on the other hand were build as cheap as possible, so increasing the load by 20% is already too much for most of them.
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It's not surprising per se, but it's something that people should be more aware of. And a lot of this consumption is not providing global services (like the Google search or workspace suite) but the whole AI hype.
I didn't find numbers for Google or Microsoft specifically, but training ChatGPT 4 consumed 50 GWh on its own. The daily estimates for queries are estimated between 1-5 GWh.
Given that the extrapolation is an overestimate and calculating the actual consumption is pretty much impossible, it's still probably a lot of energy wasted for a product that people do not want (e.g. Google AI "search", Bing and Copilot being stuffed into everything).
They only do that because they project it to be profitable, i.e. they project demand for it.
It's also ridiculous to claim that people don't want it just because you don't.
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It sounds scary, and that's all that's needed to get clicks.
All of that AI crap they keep pushing certainly doesn't help the energy consumption though.
For sure
Google originally made a name for themselves by building a global search engine on low cost, low powered desktop machines running in parallel, so it's surprising because they have gone from high-efficiency to power hogs.
Who said they are not efficient? They just serve buildings of users. I would be surprised if they didn't figure out how to do it more efficiently than Bing PER REQUEST. They have PhDs sitting around thinking how to lower power consumption by 1%
Not surprising at all. Power hogging is the whole point of capitalism. It's just literally electric power in this case.
The thing here also is that I can't see that they have taken into account that they deliver data center services globally.
So say that my company have 100 VMs in azure. That energy usage should count for our company and country, and not Microsoft.
It's OK, I sort my garbage to make a better world. Evens it out.
Yeah, and we're all using paper straws now, so it's double evened out
I still drive my SUV beside all the Prius' on the road.
Lol, and here's me in my non-Prius hybrid evening that out:
You also use Gmail and force Google to run their servers to power it.
Reducing your carbon footprint as much as possible is important, but it's absurd to get mad at companies that power 90% of the world's businesses for using a bunch of power to do so. It takes power to do those things.
I just wish we never got to this point to begin with. We shouldn't have trusted all our keys to a single cool startup in the early 2000s.
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Evens it out
Flattens out the blowjob
Google has 4.9 billion users while Microsoft has 1.6 billion active devices.
I think comparing them to small nations is dumb but it doesn't seem extreme when you take into account the huge amount of users (half the planet uses google everyday)
In any case, it's up to the government to make sure our grid is robust and runs on renewables. Microsoft is building it's own nuclear reactor because the government is so fucking inept. This is a scape goat.
They're doing what??
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Google reported to have earned 305B in 2023. Finland had an estimate of 300B GDP, while consuming 79.8 TWh of electricity.
So, in comparison, Google is massively more efficient than Finland?
If your efficiency function is centered around revenue, then yeah, of course... No surprise that one of the world's most successful for-profit companies generates more profit per watt-hour than a nation, which encompasses all sorts of non-revenue-generating activity like running hospitals and keeping street lights on.
Those will be counted towards GDP -- that's all economic activity.
Lemmy is bad with money, economics and business, also anti corporate/work, so anything positive towards corporate tends to be slammed with ignorance. I try my best to just ignore those replies / votes and move on.
I try to correct them if it's easy enough. I probably won't convince them, but maybe the next person will consider it and educate themselves.
My comment isn't anti-corporate or anti-work though...? It just isn't that strange that Google is more efficient at generating revenue (as dollars-per-kWh) than Finland is.
It's strange that people believe capitalist/political metrics mean anything of value.
Regulate them!
I originally read that as 'Google and Microsoft hold more power than most countries', which is also true.
It's definately cheaper to have some in-house power plants than to pay utilities for the electricity more often than not, and hydroelectric or battery storage might also be cost-effective at times, although I'd say a bit less so than generation.
Very true. I've seen how politicians of some countries do a complete lap-dance whenever a FAANG company entertains the thought of building a datacenter in their territory.
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While massive energy usage means a substantial environmental impact for these tech giants, it should be noted that Google and Microsoft also generate more money than many countries. Furthermore, companies like Intel, Google, and Microsoft lead renewable energy adoption within the industry.
So fucking what? That's like excusing a mass-murderer because he's rich and he promised to "not kill quite as many people in the future."
What a useless and pandering thing to say.
No, it's not.
Them making money implies that they are being paid to use power, which is true. Their absolute carbon footprint is irrelevant given that most of what the carbon they use is at the request of someone else. The metric to judge them on is their carbon footprint relevant to peers.
I.e. it's not fair to judge a cab company for driving someone somewhere (judge the person choosing to hire a cab), but it is fair to judge them if they use gas guzzlers instead of EVs.
what are you on about, mate? who's paying for copilot's adoption? who's funding the disparaging of the medieval term for a minstrel with a song?
who's paying you for this absurd take?
As of last year ~70% of software developers were using copilot or a similar AI assistant. The legal field has seen a drop off in junior hires because of AI assistants. Snapchat's AI filters and tools have long been a huge draw for that platform (and then copied by everyone else to avoid bleeding users), and Bing saw massive user growth after integrating OpenAI.
AI has problems and limitations but it's absurd to think there's no demand for it just because it's pushed by annoying people. Everything with hype will get pushed by annoying people.
~70% of software developers were using copilot or a similar AI assistant
That's interesting, do you have a source?
It was the Stack Overflow developer survey I believe
I think he's partially right. Azure, AWS etc. are running workloads which would otherwise run in a bazillion smaller data centers. I still believe something is wrong as all those giants promise to run their data centers super duper green and sustainable..
Why do you think using energy is bad by itself? They are paying for it and they are trying to get as much renewable as they can.
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One decent sized factory uses more power in one hour than I do all year. There's millions of them.
What the fuck do you guys think factories do? Just run for no reason? Where do you think the stuff you own, use, and consume comes from?
Yeah, I worked at a plastic bottle plant, one of 30 nationally in just that one company making beverage and food containers. None of them were necessary, it's a huge waste of resources. Look around you, consider the amount of resources it took to make everything around you.
Privilege unbridled.
I love iceland
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