This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
"Battery Station" vs. "Gas Station" should've been a no brainer from day one.
Next best plan should be "electric roads" that are powered by green tech.
Of course it all would be massively expensive. Sadly, it's clear that the powers that be to protect Earth's climate do not give a shit.
Highways could totally have power lines overhead...the problem is hust finding the best way of getting it to the car safely (I don't like the trolley-style solution).
Not sure what the "trolley style" is.
My exposure to electric roads are electro-magnetic rails under the road that provide a constant electric field that cars drive over.
Honestly, I think it may be possible to build entire roads with enough crushed metal elements in the asphalt/concrete and a slight low power charge throughout the entire surface would be able to keep any vehicle battery at a steady charge.
But, I'm not a scientist/engineer/electrical specialist, etc ...
Trolly style = hooking on to an over-road power line.
Yes, I should've known. It was a popular thing in my area with a bus line that stopped just within the past 3 years.
Honestly, I think it may be possible to build entire roads with enough crushed metal elements in the asphalt/concrete and a slight low power charge throughout the entire surface would be able to keep any vehicle battery at a steady charge.
You might be underestimating how much power a car consumes while driving. For example, a Tesla model 3 has an efficiency of about 130 Wh/km in mild weather at highway speeds. Assuming that on the highway you'll travel 100 km/h, that means you'll use 130*100 = 13.000 Wh/h, a constant power draw of 13kW. That's enough to power perhaps 8-12 houses on average.
A km of road could have, let's say, 80 cars on it (4 lanes, 20m per car). That means you'd need to pump about a megawatt of power into every kilometer of road to keep them all topped up.
Does using a period in your number not cause confusion? 13.000 vs 13,000. I first read it is 13 since the zeros mean nothing following a period where im from. No shade, just curious.
Apologies. I'm from a country where the meaning of the period and comma is reversed compared to the US, so I did it this way out of habit.
And that doesn't seem to take into account transmission losses. Even the best wireless phone chargers are maybe 70% efficient. This may hit 40% if you're lucky. So double that figure.
I don't oppose the idea of battery station, but who owns the battery then? When I bought the car, am I leasing the battery? How about used car?
In my head the batteries would work somewhat like the electric scooters you can rent around big cities. There would be battery companies that pay stations to stock their batteries. Then EV owners pay for the juice they used, plus a little extra for the wear, plus a little extra to make it worth it for the battery companies when they swap to a new battery. So you're essentially renting the batteries.
I guess it would either work like a subscription fee or a one time fee per swap
You pay a monthly fee (lease) that contains a certain number of swaps per month, above which you pay extra. The car is also cheaper this way, as you are not paying for the battery
No, you're paying over and over for the battery.
Sort of like how you pay over and over for gas, without which your car doesn't work?
No, it's like paying over and over for the gas tank.
Subscription for my car? Don't we have too much subscriptions already?
And neither solve the ownship problem, and a tons of other problems.
The company (NIO) owns them and you are leasing the batteries. The car is cheaper this way, as you don’t buy the battery, but pay a monthly fee (~200+ in Germany).
You have a fixed number of swaps per month, above that you have to pay extra.
Source: colleague uses a car like this and explained the details.
What if they EOL the battery and stops the leasing program? Now the perfectly fine car is non functional because it's missing a battery. If I replace it, I'm just contributing more waste, not in materal but energy. Is that the "green" future we all after?
I'd assume you could still charge them the regular way. You'd just no longer get a fresh one, but that just puts you on pqr with the other EVs
The ownership is still questionable. Even if that's the case, you're stuck with the battery you last swapped in, which you don't know the wear level or how long it will last.
I would guess a swappable battery would be separated from the vehicle, similar to a gas bottle for a grill.
The battery would be rented for a small deposit and on swapping you only pay the energy + service fee.
I guess you could also buy one to own, but then could not swap that.
That's how it would make sense, at least.
I will take ownership over leasing as a 200 miles range is more than enough for me. But you will see if the leasing model works out, they will only have leasing left for you as that's a continous money flow. Or have the battery be super expensive to discourage you buy it.
It's been a while since I've watched it myself, but remember them going into the ownership structure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w
There's basically no way for them to not make it a subscription model.
So I can give an example. Here in Taiwan, Gogoro has put up a lot of battery swap stations for their electric scooters. When you buy the scooter, it comes with removable batteries which you can charge on your own. Or, you can buy a monthly subscription on top of it that gives you access to those battery stations, where you can ride up to one and swap a pair of freshly charged batteries into your scooter. Subscription price is tiered by Ah per month, if you go over the limit you pay extra per Ah.
In this case, yes I think Gogoro is in charge of maintaining/replacing old batteries. Subscription is separate from the scooter cost, so buying used should not affect your ability to subscribe to the plan.
I love that system
Renault tried leasing the batteries in EV in an effort to lower the initial cost of the car while increasing their tail for future owners. They abandoned it only a few years in as it was a disaster for their used market that got worse the older the car got as nobody wanted the ongoing cost. Only the initial owner saved money, and only if they managed to use PCP finance with a balloon set before Renault realised that the battery leased cars would be worth significantly less.
Renault also did not like that with older cars they would be liable for the battery replacement far sooner than they planned as they (initially) had a higher percentage unusable before they had to do a free replacement vs. a normal battery warranty, made worse as a leased battery has a warranty as long as you are paying the lease.
Renault could repossess the car if you stopped paying the battery lease and refused to buy it out. Its like any car finance that puts a lien or similar on the car, you do not own it till its gone.
It's not just that, its what happens if you get a battery from a guy named roger who said he knows what he's doing and fucked with it?
Battery swapping sounds great, until you put it into a real world scenario.
There are already plenty of shady car mechanics named roger who can swindle you out there...
Battery swapping sounds great, until you put it into a real world scenario.
Government regulation and standardization is the answer.
You know, like fossil fuels also are. For example fuelpumps have to be legally calibrated so that they measure accurately, and there are a myriad of quality standards and ratings regarding what 98 octane or 95 octane or diesel fuel or whatever can contain.
How does this solve the issue of roger fucking with his battery and then you ending up with it during a battery swap? You do realize how many states with counties have no inspections right?
I think it's great to see this happening. I've always thought this option makes sense. I still wish the solution was a drone that comes right to you and drops a battery into a port on your roof while you are still driving, but I guess that is going to have to wait.
I want to see someone try.
Not because it's practical, or because it makes sense. But because it sounds like it makes sense but I'm practice would be so impractical and hard that the solution would be absolutely hilarious.
You're driving along the freeway at 70 miles an hour, and a jet powered super drone rockets along side the car carrying a 2000 pound brick of lithium and drops it on top of you like a fucking dump truck. The shock crushes the cheap Chinese car like a can of soda and the sudden change in weight sends the drone careening off in to the air at a reasonable percentage of mach 1. The last thing you see on this earth as your brain matter is squeezed out of your eye sockets like toothpaste is a wide eyed driver in the car next to you.
The resulting pile up kills 4 people immediately, and several more later as they get caught in an expanding wave of lithium battery fires that either burn them to death or suck all of the oxygen out of the air.
Did the car get successfully recharged though?
It certainly had more chemical energy added to it, so... yes?
Sounds good. Let’s work on the business plan. ;)
I can see so many issues with what you're proposing, but hey auto grenade dropping drones have great military application
My colleague has a NIO car like this, he really likes it and uses the battery swap weekly. To my knowledge they have patented the tech.
If I bought an electric car, I would definitely consider NIO, as this option is great for long trips. In EU they have a couple of swap stations in Germany, but it’s still a long way to go in other countries.
Ah so this is about swapping the battery on-the-go so you can get rid of your depleted one and get a freshly charged one within minutes.
That's actually pretty cool then!
Not quite sure how this relates to Apple though.
It's a joke about how apple made their phone even thinner and the battery still isn't removable :P
Was waiting for Nio to make it state-side. Now, not so sure they will be allowed.
The example of driving from Paris to Mt St Michel where you have to plan carefully to get to ‘the only supercharger’ east of Paris is a bit stupid. Why not charge at Total, Engie, or even Lidl? I assume Teslas are not exclusively charged at superchargers, which can be pretty slow at 150kW when there are 300kW options as well.
A good and in France rapidly improving charging network is important, swapping batteries sounds nice but brings so many compatibility and standardization issues, not considering ownership/lock-in etc.
I stopped reading the article there.
Either the author is voluntarily misleading or he has no idea of what he is talking about.
Here is the map all the fast charging stations (>100kW) along the way between Paris and the Mont St Michel.
I did not count them but at a first glance the number of charger is higher than "none"
for one specific brand (specific model too ?)
Probably one platform (used for several models, sometimes shared between brands. For instance VW Polo, Audi A1, Seat Ibiza and Skoda Fabia are all based on the same platform).
Unless you have cars with modular battery packs, which do not exist right now.
The cost to install stations would dramatically reduce if you had one stations that could supply 20 parking lots instead of one station for each two lots.
It also shuts up all the complaints about batteries going dead and the cost of replacing them.
I do agree ice vehicles are already very convenient and most people complaining are mostly just parroting oil propoganda, but making them even more convenient isn't a bad thing.
I don't think many run their batteries to the ground but it's nice to know someone can just bring you a spare if you do.
The answer is massive government support. The cost of those stations has to be insane...imagine the inventory holding cost of those batteries
Imagine the cost of stations everywhere that would have tanker-trucks deliver fluid that you'd put in cars
