this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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Asklemmy
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Growth potential. Relatively clear laws on immigration and foreign business. The language doesn't leave me functionally illiterate (it uses Latin-ish characters). The lack of other immigrants, and general brain drain to Western economies gave me a competitive advantage. Maybe a standard rule of business is "don't do what everyone else is doing".
It was clear a lot of growth was about to happen, and anyone who could reach out and grab a bit of it would do well. Also: why sell tech where tech is common and everyone has it already?
Of course that was good on paper, but the first three years were a disaster. Tried working for a foreign company as an employee, got cheated badly, lost most of my assets, didn't know what to do. The five year plan just came out about then, figured I'd RTFM. It encouraged me to start a tech company, and I am good at tech, so I put every dime in.
Next three years were a disaster too, lost everything. I got wiser though, and things improved after that. The rest is just reliably grinding out work for clients.
I find the quality of life here quite good overall. I used to cough blood in winter. None of that nonsense anymore! Health care is OK. Food and weather are nice, and my neighbors are decent. It's very safe, by far the safest place I've ever lived. Interactions with government have been efficient and cordial. Air pollution and traffic are becoming a bit of a problem, but can't have everything I guess.
Tools from China and reasonably priced local factories mean I have more access to advanced technology than I had in the West. By a lot! I can now access the means of production, and it's pretty amazing!
Did they only pay you in "equity" instead of wages?
Also, how was your interaction with the government? Did you have to "lubricate" with your money to make things go faster?
No, they just outright didn't pay me most months. My visa status depended on my employment, so there was not much I could immediately do. So I kept my head down, got paid as much as I could, and started my own company to decouple my employment from my visa status as soon as reasonably possible. The director openly mocked me for doing so, but I'm the one still in business.
It's OK, we can talk frankly about bribes. Early on, I decided not to pay bribes. It's been twelve years or so, no problems have arisen so far. All paperwork I've submitted has been processed within a reasonable amount of time, although I am quite good at bureaucracy. The one time it wasn't due to a glitch (registering to receive Covid vaccination), I called my Party representative and she sorted it out within a day. They were really trying to get the vaccination numbers up, so it was not very difficult.
To provide some context, labor / immigration law compliance of foreign workers in Vietnam has typically been poor. So a lot of people say "oh, you have to pay bribes", when what they are actually doing is trying to rationalize away the fact that they are breaking the law, e.g. driving without a license or working on a tourist visa, and then searching for someone to bribe to try and escape consequences.
I'm not going to claim that every government official is honest, but I do feel that we get a distorted view of the situation -- these are mostly just people finding what they are looking for. Most of the stories I hear online are from the people paying bribes making themselves out to be a victim -- "on the ground" what I see is people bragging about being above the law.
It's gotten better in recent years though. More people are coming to Vietnam to work honestly than before, and they are more qualified. On our side of things, more government systems are becoming digitized and online. I'm hopeful that it will continue getting better.
You implied that your business outlasts your former employer's? Serve them right! What a shitty company. Losing trust is detrimental in business so their bankruptcy is only natural.
Regarding "lubrication", many people including my parents believe that the right middle men ("cรฒ" in Vietnamese) can speed up the process. They don't have any basis to this thinking though. It's like a secular form of Asian superstition. Regardless, I now have a habit of reading the nameplates of gov employees should "difficulty" arises.
It's kinda expected that our immigration laws aren't the best. Vietnam as a developing economy would expect to export our own labours abroad, rarely do we import labours.
Anyway, it's nice to hear a story that contradicts what I find on /r/Vietnam subreddit. Let's hope that the government continue to modernize and improve bureaucratic efficiency. And may the God of Wealth bless your business.
Funny story, when I wanted to learn how something works, I'd just... follow one of the middlemen. Learned how to use the UBNQ, repair televisions (one shop in Q5 is the best, the rest just buy from it), legalize documents, and many other things this way :D
It's weird how it's just some weird secular superstition too! There's literally no difference between what they do and the obvious thing (fill out the form and hand it in). Yet everyone pays them like they are priests performing rituals to win the favor of some Greek god. Who would be I guess... Bureaucratos?
Also /r/Vietnam can be a bit of a... cesspool of inequity. I mean 'how do I commit crimes' is a pretty common line of inquiry there. I try not to worry too much because those people won't have a place in the future the rest of us are building :)
Well the Vietnamese don't worship Greek Gods, but many people are superstitious. Their beliefs range from Feng Shui, to Wu Xing, to demons and ghosts. I've heard of parents who prevent their son from marrying his lover simply because their ages incompatible. And there are reports about people of minor ethnicity in remote areas who rather invoke a shaman for an illness rather than call a doctor, even if the illness is lethal.
Ah, sorry -- I was joking. The French prefix 'bureau' (having to do with offices, desks, writing) coupled with the ancient Greek suffix "cratos" (power, might) would be a good name for some god of bureaucracy -- but there is no such god in the ancient Greek pantheon. A better comparison would be the Celestial Bureaucracy, I guess!
Yeah, I've got some relatives who are into the shaman healing stuff. We've got to keep on eye on it so they don't give away all their money to fraudsters.
I did learn some feng shui though, it was super useful when buying land. I bought the most cursed, haunted land possible according to feng shui, to get the best price. Since I plan to live there, not sell, this was fine and saved me about 200-400 trieu.
I did know you were joking but I didn't know "bureaucratos" until you explain it to me. Cultural difference, I guess.
Regarding the Celestial Bureaucracy (or Heavenly Court). Nowadays, it is often used in fictional works as a metaphor for actual government to criticize the government. Actually, it is not just "nowadays", it has always been used as a metaphor for actual government.
Ah yeah, I remember that! That comedy show during Tet used to do that a lot, right?
That show is obvious to Vietnamese, no doubt.
For the wider East Asian culture however, there's Journey to the West. It contains allegory and political commentary on the corruption, decadence, and weakness of the Ming Dynasty. In Journey to the West, both the Taoist Celestial Court and the Buddha side are corrupt in their own ways. These elements have sadly been removed in the 10,000 Chinese cinema remakes. These remakes are profitable, but soulless and forgettable.
Ah, I haven't read that one yet, but it's on my list! I got through Romance of the 3 Kingdoms though, it was really enjoyable.