this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
218 points (92.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43945 readers
638 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
If my two options are a fascist who will end the US and a conservative who will continue favoring the rich, is that really a choice? How is one a success vs the other? Neither one of them or their supporters care about the world I want to live in and both will materially harm me and mine (albeit in different ways). Why should I perpetuate either when I could vote a different way and, at worst, perpetuate the shitty system that has given me no choice?
One supports the killing or elimination of lgbtq+ people, the other doesn't. That is enough reason for me, even outside of the other reasons they are not the same.
Oh really? What has Biden done to reverse any of the Trump policies? What laws have been enacted that enshrine protections? What is Biden doing to prevent the removal of said groups from schools and the stripping of their protections? What is his party doing to support and protect?
You’re so focused on the vitriol from one side you’re ignoring the complacency and damn near explicit support from the other side. Just because one side doesn’t say mean things doesn’t mean they don’t allow bad shit to happen.
i mean, at the state level blue states are both not trying to get queer people killed, and are expanding access to resources. blue senators aren't voting with the anti-queer positions on the federal level. they aren't safe, but complacency and support are not the same thing, and the outcomes for actual people are materially worse in places where republicans have control.
The shit I’m getting is for my federal voting stance, not my local or state voting stance.
Complacency and support are the same thing at a political level. Doing nothing is a an explicit choice. The party doesn’t care about labor or anyone that isn’t a capitalist. Manchin and Sinema are great examples. They haven’t faced any consequences nor will they.
I don't have words. Trump literally admires Hitler and aspires to be like him. Biden is just a somewhat centrist old guy. See if you can spot the whataboutism
What, exactly, has Biden done to reverse anything Trump did? What, exactly, has his party done to reverse the changes made? Where’s the rhetoric condemning Trump? Where’s the sense of urgency to reverse course?
You’re not giving me any choices here ergo I’m choosing another option. If that means I’m supporting “the bad” then the experiment has failed and we’re just circling the drain. I can choose to actively support circling the drain or I can try something new. I’m not going to play the old game because it’s already lost.
In case you actually don't know all of the policy work that the Biden administration has done to reverse the damage of the Trump presidency here is a policy tracker. Many of these policies take actual work to reverse and can't be changed unilaterally by the executive.
The big issue here is that the Biden administration is attempting to play by some old rules the Trump administration and current Republicans ignore. Sure. They’re pushing policy. Where’s the daily executive order undoing something or adding something? Where are the test cases constantly being pushed up like the right is doing? Where is the constant rhetoric to combat the vitriol? Where is the tit-for-tat removal of federal support for states fucking with people? Sure, lots of it will get thrown out. Some of it sticks, though, like blocking Garland’s nomination, and then seven years later you have people on the internet saying the Biden administration, doing fuck all novel, is actually trying to make a stand.
None of that matters in practical terms. One choice leads to the end of democracy and tyranny, the other is not perfect but you still have freedoms and rights.
The two options are not the same. I'm not sure if you're receiving the signal
If you’re telling me I have one choice to avoid tyranny, that’s tyranny. There is no more democracy. The game is over. We lost. Why continue to do the same shit over and over expecting a different result? Why delay the inevitable?
If I vote Trump, I am supporting fascism. Not going to argue for anyone doing that; no positives in that camp.
If I vote for Biden, I give explicit support to attacks on labor, a complete lack of response to the attacks on everyone that Trump did, and prop up a party so supportive of our current Gilded Age you can’t talk shitty wealth policy without mentioning Democratic tech worship. War crimes, genocide, and surveillance were issues I’ve had with the party for years and Biden just continued them with a smile.
If I vote 3rd party, there’s a small chance something positive could happen. Worst case scenario it’s like I didn’t vote at all, but at least I didn’t vote to support fascism or billionaire ownership of common resources.
I have this debate a lot. If there’s only one choice in a two-party system, we don’t have a choice or a democracy. Call me all the names you want; I won’t vote for someone that thinks the way that Biden or Trump does about labor or foreign relations.