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Only 14% of US voters say Joe Biden has made them better off (www.ft.com)

submitted 10 months ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml

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[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

He will not get my vote in the primary (which Biden will likely win), but I'm still voting for him in the General, because if he loses, I know for certain I will not be better off when Republicans inevitably enact the policies entailed in Project 2025.

ETA: Unless by some miracle he loses the primary, in which case, I will be voting for the not-fascist.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

Much appreciated. I've started taking some time to read over Project 2025. It's truly terrifying, not just for the US but for the world.

[+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Biden is currently aiding and abetting a literal genocide and US libs keep pretending he's not a fascist

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He's not. Genocide is not a prescript of Fascism. Pretending he's a fascist for this one thing is needlessly reductive and broadens the meaning of Fascism to the point that it doesn't mean anything useful at all.

You know who is a fascist? Donald Trump, who on Veterans Day called people on the Left "vermin" to be rooted out, mimicking Hitler's own words about Jews. Now, explain to me how he and Biden are similar enough to be considered cut from the same cloth.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Care to provide a definition for what you think fascism is? While there are a few accepted definitions of fascism, a common thread tends to be a militarized regime run by the oligarchs who control the industry. This is precisely what we see happening in US. Both Trump and Biden represent the interests of the oligarchs and this is reflected by decades of policy data:

What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Let's break down Biden point by point, shall we?

Far-right: No
Dictatorial: No
Ultranationalist: No
Supports centralized autocracy: No
Supports Militarism: Yes
Forcibly suppresses opposition: No
Believes in natural social heierachy: No*
Believes individual interests should be sacrificed for the perceived good of the nation: No
Promotes strong regimentation of society and economy: No

*: Not enough data to indicate his personal beliefs on this.

Biden is nowhere near Fascism based on that definition, and unless you can provide a better one that isn't " because the US is a defacto oligarchy and Biden is a warmonger," there's no way to square that circle.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Far-right: No

Both US republicans and democrats are very much far right by any sensible standard

Dictatorial: No

Read the study I linked above which clearly shows that US political system works in the interest of the elites, that's what a dictatorial system looks like.

Ultranationalist: NoI

LMFAO imagine thinking that US isn't ultranationalist

Supports centralized autocracy: No

Again, see study above

Forcibly suppresses opposition: No

All alternative parties are effectively excluded from participating in the US

Believes individual interests should be sacrificed for the perceived good of the nation: No

LMAO, covid response where Biden admin sacrificed countless vulnerable people for the sake of the economy begs to differ

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think you and I are talking past each other. Your personal definitions for these words, based on your examples, are far too broad, in my opinion. I do not think there's anything on this topic that we can agree upon if we can't agree what these words mean.

Take care.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 10 months ago

I'm not using personal definitions for any words, and I've even provided you a study analyzing decades of US policy supporting my points. If we can't agree on basic and obvious facts of the situation then any meaningful discussion of the subject is indeed impossible.

Take care.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How many times are you going to link that study? Doesn't it get old after a while?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 10 months ago

As long as it stays relevant. I see it still gets under your skin.

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

He’s not a fascist but that doesn’t mean he’s really any better than one. The logic Biden is using to defend US support of genocide abroad is the same logic fascists use to oppress domestic populations. In either case, people are needlessly murdered. The only difference is where it’s taking place.