this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) -- China's military sent 103 warplanes toward Taiwan in a 24-hour period in what the island's defense ministry said Monday was a daily record in recent times.

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[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Part 1

Lol, okay semantic dispute time I guess. What exactly is your definition of a “critical analysis of imperialism”.

Definitely not purely a semantic dispute. Have you read Lenin? Lenin's analysis of imperialism still stands as the dominant critical analysis of imperialism, though there has been some recent attempts to update it to adapt to the new form imperialism caused by unipolar hegemony under the name superimperialism or hyperimperialism.

“The Han Chinese population share has increased sharply in the TAR, encouraged by massive subsidies from the central government that exceeded 100 percent of the TAR GDP from 2010 onwards”

The context of that sentence in the report shows that in culturally Tibetan regions outside the Tibet Autonomous Region are showing opposite trends, meaning that "ethnic minorities" are becoming majorities. Clearly this is not a program of Han supremacy but of social integration. Autonomous regions are not meant to be insular, but integrated into one country with multiple systems. Compare this to actual colonialism, where colonists use rape, child separation, enslavement, cultural repression, starvation, land fractionalization, and other techniques to dilute and dismantle ethnic minorities. China is doing none of this. In the TAR, the Tibetan language is used to conduct nearly all business and all education, from grade school through university. That is not colonialism.

Yeah, spending more than 100% of the TARs entire gdp on subsidizing migration… not insidious at all.

It's only insidious if you presuppose the intent.

Lol, and how many of these ethnic minority leaders have ever been in charge of their region?

Well, considering that the top position of party secretary is the only referenced in your quotation, and considering the autonomous regions experience a significant amount of indigenous cultural practices on all dimensions, we must imagine that a Han Chinese party secretary can't possibly be anyone that has the requisite social history to be responsible for that flourishing. Given that, we come to the conclusion that, in fact, the indigenous members of the autonomous regions wield significant influence over their regions and that the party secretary does exactly what a party secretary that is correctly managing an autonomous region would do - ensuring alignment with the state's core strategic direction. That means ensuring the autonomous regions are not infiltrated by Western spoilers, elevating compradors to positions of influence or power, and ensuring party resources are allocated in ways that maintain good relations with the region. If this was not what was happening, then you would be seeing separatists and sympathizers all over the place. Instead what we see is separatists are almost exclusively associated with Western programs for destabilization and most of the population in the autonomous regions are aware of the need for protecting their region against these interests. When the US is training Tibetan terrorists and air lifting them into the region to conduct acts of violence and build terror networks, it's pretty important to maintain a counter-intelligence posture even in autonomous regions.

Again, this is just a semantic dispute surrounding the meaning of colonialism. Even if colonialism was invented by the west, you yourself admit it was imported and practiced by the Japanese. China is obviously not in a vacuum of influence and is perfectly able to modify western colonialism to suit their needs.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the West invented colonialism. I'm saying the colonialism you are talking about is explicitly a phenomenon of Western society. Japan adopting it doesn't stop it from being a Western social project, that would be race essentialism. China is actively working to undo the damage of colonialism qua the Western social phenomenon. It cannot do so by replicating it.

But more to the point, you assume that China would get the same benefit of colonialism that the West did and is therefore incentivized to engage in Western colonialism. This is where your belief about the world does not match the reality of the world. The reality is that Western colonialism is fatally flawed and those countries that engaged in it are being undone by it. China is aware of this and is actively working to bring about the conditions that ensure the contradictions of Western society move inexorably towards the resolution of those contradictions by the undoing of the colonial project. If China were to then begin its own colonial project, it would be doing so with the full knowledge that it would ultimately destroy China. This is what Western chauvinists can't seem to grasp. The anti-imperialist movement is fully aware of how unsustainable the North Atlantic project is. They have no desire to emulate it. Western chauvinists just think that imperialism worked really well and now all the anti-imperialists just want to become imperialists in their own right, because obviously your opponents are guilty of the same things you are guilty of, right? But that's just projection. Modern anti-imperialists movements are based on Marxism-Leninism and Marxism-Leninism-Maoism and are fully aware of the absolute death trap that imperialism is. Their understanding of the world and how it works is that if they engage in imperialism, they will collapse, just like the West is collapsing. Don't project your bad behavior onto China.

Lol, okay… sure. You just spent a page defending imperialism, but sure.

You don't know what imperialism is. Your definition of imperialism is so anemic that it cannot distinguish between imperialism and anti-imperialism.

(Continued in Part 2)

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Definitely not purely a semantic dispute. Have you read Lenin? Lenin's analysis of imperialism still stands as the dominant critical analysis of imperialism

I mean you're entire argument is based upon a different understanding of the word imperialism, I'd say that's pretty semantic.

And yes, I have read Lenin. And while I agree with a lot of the overarching theory of imperialism seen through a capitalist lens, I think it fails to explain the nuance of a lot of historic and modern conflicts. For one I believe that it fails to recognize historic form of imperialism that happened before the industrial age. It's overarching themes can be forced into perspective, but it requires the use of a very plastic definition of capitalism. Secondly, I think that Lenin's theory of imperialism being a stage of capitalism is a product of its time, and is thus is a extremely eurocentric view of history and geopolitics.

The context of that sentence in the report shows that in culturally Tibetan regions outside the Tibet Autonomous Region are showing opposite trends, meaning that "ethnic minorities" are becoming majorities. Clearly this is not a program of Han supremacy but of social integration.

I do t quite see how you've made that you interpretation? It just sounds like the native people of Tibet are being pushed out of their own homeland. How does directing more funding to immigration than the entire autonomous regions gdp equate to social integration?

where colonists use rape, child separation, enslavement, cultural repression, starvation, land fractionalization, and other techniques to dilute and dismantle ethnic minorities

And there isn't a history of reeducation camps that have been accused of rape, family separation, and cultural repression in any autonomous zones?

In the TAR, the Tibetan language is used to conduct nearly all business and all education, from grade school through university. That is not colonialism.

Lol, that's like saying the US didn't colonize Puerto Rico because they still use Spanish as the official language. China has jailed and killed hundreds of priest and nuns in the country, going as far as disappearing their religious leader.

only insidious if you presuppose the intent.

It's only not insidious if you ignore the possibility of ill intent. If the US started funding immigration to Puerto Rico for white people, to the point that it exceeded Puerto Rico s entire gdp..... would you hold your judgment until you understood their intent?

Well, considering that the top position of party secretary is the only referenced in your quotation, and considering the autonomous regions experience a significant amount of indigenous cultural practices on all dimensions

You can't substantiate that claim? There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that indigenous cultures have plenty of limitations imposed by the state.

we must imagine that a Han Chinese party secretary can't possibly be anyone that has the requisite social history to be responsible for that flourishing.

Again, this statement is predicated on an unsubstantiated claim.

Given that, we come to the conclusion that, in fact, the indigenous members of the autonomous regions wield significant influence over their regions and that the party secretary does exactly what a party secretary that is correctly managing an autonomous region would do - ensuring alignment with the state's core strategic direction.

You are basing your entire argument on a post hoc fallacy, you have not substantiated the claim that indigenous people are flourishing.

If this was not what was happening, then you would be seeing separatists and sympathizers all over the place. Instead what we see is separatists are almost exclusively associated with Western programs for destabilization and most of the population in the autonomous regions are aware of the need for protecting their region against these interests.

Lol, okay so your logic is that if there were oppression going on that it would cause separatist movements, but according to you all separatist movements were started by western powers ......... very convenient.

Japan adopting it doesn't stop it from being a Western social project, that would be race essentialism.

Yes, my point is that china is not immune to adopting certain aspects of western colonialism.

China is actively working to undo the damage of colonialism qua the Western social phenomenon.

That's another unsubstantiated claim.

you assume that China would get the same benefit of colonialism that the West did

Ahh yes, now you get to make claims for me. I sense a strawman argument coming around the corner....

China is aware of this and is actively working to bring about the conditions that ensure the contradictions of Western society move inexorably towards the resolution of those contradictions by the undoing of the colonial project. If China were to then begin its own colonial project, it would be doing so with the full knowledge that it would ultimately destroy China.

That would be if the Chinese were practicing the same extraction based colonialism, which is not a claim I've made. I believe the type of colonialism we have seen is more of a slow boil version of Americas expansion west, which involves more assimilation and subjection, and placation until the he local popular can be replaced.

You don't know what imperialism is. Your definition of imperialism is so anemic that it cannot distinguish between imperialism and anti-imperialism.

You don't get to define imperialism as you see fit, Lenin was a brilliant man, but his ideologies aren't all encompassing. Theories like historic materialism may be the best overarching theory of the motives of human conflict, but it leaves a lot to be desired when you try to utilize it to explain every conflict. Yes material needs might be the inherent reason for the racism that started the first war, but the fighters of the following reactionary wars aren't going recognize that, or even remember the material needs being the base for their own racism.