this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
411 points (78.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43947 readers
671 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I am biased saying this, but I really don't think Lemmy is bad behind the scenes. On the contrary, I think it's revolutionary from a technological perspective, not only because of the Fediverse but because of the way it's implemented and all the great new technologies used.
Keep in mind that this is a FOSS project, and there is obviously no budget to be hiring moderation teams for CSAM like software giants do.
CSAM was an obvious problem from the start, but when it comes down to it, it's a moderator job and not a job for the actual software to do.
Thankfully there are new tools now to help moderators deal with CSAM that are possibly going to be incorporated to Lemmy afaik.
TLDR: Don't blame the software for people being shit
Sorry, but I disagree. Note that I don't disagree with the idea or the technology itself (and the concept of Fediverse), the problem is the current state of development. Saying that it's the moderators job doesn't absolve the responsibility of the software, when the software, in it's current state, doesn't really provide any decent tools for moderation and user access controls.
CSAM was never a problem on well-configured traditional forums, which were based on forum software such as Invision, vBulletin etc. To elaborate, in traditional forums, you'd get a LOT of controls for filtering out the kind of users who post such content. For instance, most forums won't even let you post until you complete an interactive tutorial first (reading the rules and replying to a bot indicating you’ve understood them etc). On top of that, you can have various levels of restrictions, eg, someone with less than 100 posts, or an account less than a month old may not be able to post any links or images etc. Also, you can have a trust system on some forums, where a mod can mark your account as trusted or verified, granting you further rights. You can even make it so that a manual moderator approval is required before image posting rights are granted. In this instance, a mod would review your posting history and ensure that your posts genuinely contributed to the community and you’re unlikely to be a troll/karma farmer account etc.
So, short of accounts getting compromised/hacked, it’s very difficult to have this sort of stuff happen on a well-configured traditional forum.
I used to be a mod on a couple of popular forums back in the day, and I even ran my own server for a few years (using Invision Power Board), and never once have I had to deal with such content.
The fact is Lemmy, in it's present state, is woefully inadequate to deal with such content. Dealing with CSAM should never be a volunteer mod's job - that stuff can scar you for life, or even trigger PTSD/bad memories for those who might've suffered abuse in their forgotten past. If people are involved, it should be a job for professionals who're trained to deal with this stuff.
Once again, I don't disagree with the general idea or the concept of Lemmy, it's just unfortunate timing the Reddit exodus happened when the software was essentially an alpha.
I agree that CSAM protection is lacking, but the software is not an alpha. As a platform I use it just as much as I used to use Reddit and usually it's much faster, more enjoyable and not profit driven.
CSAM protection is essential, but it's a very hard problem to solve and naturally it takes time. Feature wise though, it's constantly improving and showing how powerful FOSS can be when enough people are interested in it.
I agree that CSAM needs to be fixed as soon as possible, I'm just pointing out that despite this huge problem, the software is otherwise doing very well and improving faster and faster as more people join in.
That's because you're only seeing it from the eyes of a user. Talk to any admin of a big instance and you'll see how inadequate it is. Or just head over to Beehaw, they have made some very detailed statements on how much of a nightmare Lemmy is, and on the current bleak state of development.
Yeah I agree. Lemmy obviously isn't at the level reddit is, but reddit has had nearly 2 decades of development with a larger userbase.
I certainly would like to see Lemmy development happen a bit more quickly, and in particular better 3rd party/mod tools (I REALLY want a RES for Lemmy), but I don't think we're in a bad place on the Lemmy timeline.