this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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Surrender == the end of Ukraine. There's 0% chance of Russia honouring it for any meaningful length of time. They'll see it as a weakness of Ukraine and they'll just build up their forces again and attack. Any legitimate peace deal HAS to have the condition of Russia pulling out of all Ukrainian territory otherwise it'll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves. Russia loses nothing by withdrawing. And you 100% know this, which is why tankies keep peddling it - they can claim to be on the moral high ground by saying "we want peace! everyone else are bloodthirsty monsters!" but in reality they know it'll just lead to more violence and genocide. Imagine calling the Allies blood thirsty monsters in WWII because they didn't accept a peace deal with Nazi Germany because they wanted it to end as fast as possible.
Nobody wants bloodshed. Ukraine didn't ask for this war. But they're not going to give up and let Russia get away with a land grab.
If by reasonable that you want Russia to win this war then yeah, sure.
Have you been sleeping for the last decades? There were plenty of wars. The US didn't stop them, in fact, the US started a bunch of them, and more were started by US allies, or waged with US help. The US supports illegal occupation ("taking land") all over, too.
So is there actually any norm anyone adheres to? Seems to me the actual norm is "don't do anything the US doesn't like". It's got nothing to do with starting wars or taking land.
no one tell this guy what a nation is it'll break his heart
This isn't a children's movie, there is no good guy in this war.
No one fucking wins, if Azov 'wins' then Ukraine will become even more of a Nazi shithole and a husk of an economy as the US calls in all its debts. If Russia 'wins' then it won't be much better off either.
Than advocate for peace talks instead of grinding more Ukrainians and Russians into paste, you bloodthirsty ghoul.
See? You do want bloodshed. You care more about dirt than human life.
There are only two outcomes of this war: A bloody long battle where innocent people get thrown in the meatgrinder regardless of which side comes out on top, or we get both sides to stop fighting and do peace talks so they can compromise and stop the killing as soon as possible. Nothing good will ever come out of this war. It needs to end as soon as possible to stop the bloodshed. The concern here should be stopping the loss of life as soon as possible, not caring about lines on a fucking map. For supposedly being pro-Ukraine, NATO sure loves killing Ukrainians.