What the fuck is wrong with you? The idea that the USA could possibly engage in appeasement is completely undermined by the fact that THEY ARE THE AGGRESSOR WHO IS BEING APPEASED. When China pushes back against the USA they are not doing something wrong, they are doing something against the USA's interests. When China doesn't push back against the USA, they are appeasing.

The entire analysis of "oh everyone is bad and therefore the USA shouldn't appease them" is completely structureless. It's all moron vibes.

[–] TomHardy@lemmy.ml 41 points 1 year ago

You see - fuck the US - but if the US is putting 12 000 km away from their mainland military equipment on what they recognize as China's territory, it is actually "CCP imperialism" if they react ;)

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thanks for your reply, before I address it, I have to ask, would you support it if the CCP government launched a military invasion of Taiwan?

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I would need to analyze the situation. The CPC has established it will not do this for any reason except to protect Chinese national security interests. If it turns out that the USA delivers advanced missile "defense" systems and other nuclear capabilities including submarines, air power, and other plaforms and assets, then it will be all but strategically certain that China will be forced to use military action to push the USA off the island and out of the surrounding waters.

Given the analysis of the Ukraine conflict, it's possible that China may need to include other considerations that I am not fully up to speed on about American capabilities and American proxy war strategies.

In short, yes, I trust the CPC to only use military force when all other options for defense against the USA have been exhausted. This has been their policy and doctrine for a while and there are no indications of it changing anytime soon.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly, I don’t think we really disagree all that much in broad terms. We both hate US imperialism. I just don’t see the CCP as an omni-benevolent state which can do no wrong. Until the world is ready to fully transition away from capitalism, greed and totalitarianism, it is best to limit the power and influence of nation states. And that includes states which claim to be transitioning towards communism. Checks and balances against supremacy prevents anti-revolutionary elements from seizing control of the state and turning its power against the people. Let’s just agree to disagree, move on with our lives, and spend our energy arguing with people who still support capitalism instead.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We do disagree, a lot. For example you think I believe that China is omnibenevolent. I don't.

Another example, you think it's possible to limit the power and influence of nationstates without simultaneously expanding the power and influence of nationstates. Exactly how do you think this is possible? Who, exactly, is going to limit the power and influence of China? After that power and influence is limited, what do you think will happen to the power and influence of others.

What you don't seem to understand is that China is STILL going through the process of limiting the power and influence of the North Atlantic in China's own physical location. The USA however, is busy limiting the power and influence of other nations in those nations' physical locations. Pushing back against the North Atlantic is literally how you achieve the goal you say you want.

The idea of having checks and balances in an international world order that has spent the last 600 years dominating 80% of the world's population with abject brutality and genocide required the expansion of power and influence of formerly oppressed states. Like it or not, you can't just reduce the USA's influence with vibes while the USA reduces China's influence with nukes.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the United States’s Union split in half tomorrow, then the power of the United States would be diminished. This would simultaneously strengthen every other nation state in comparison. So by limiting the power of the CCP, we reduce their ability to cause harm. It’s not a zero sum game between the US and China or even NATO and China. There are plenty of other people involved. This isn’t a video game. We are talking about people’s lives.

And yes, I also oppose NATO.

Anyways, I’m done with you. I have tried to build consensus and establish equal ground but you just refuse to admit that you made assumptions about me that were wrong. I don’t want to spend any more time talking to someone who won’t respect what I write enough to actually read it.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

LOL, you tried to establish common ground by assuming shit about me and when I explain my position you take offense. You can't imagine that reducing Chinese power inherently increases North Atlantic power despite not being a zero sum game. You live in a fantasy world.

[–] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

*CPC

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

My Chinese ex would refer to it as CCP, so I’ll stick with that, since I trust him on this more than internet randoms. Actually, he’d usually just refer to it as “the party”, or occasionally “zhonggong”, but that would be a bit confusing, so CCP it is.

[–] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow! Please tell that to the Communist Party of China.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My point is that despite the party using CPC officially, even Chinese people will use CCP or “the party” when communicating outside of China, and inside China they will call it zhonggong, or the full name, which I will not embarrass myself by attempting to reproduce. Like I said, I know more about this shit than you do, so give it a fucking rest. It doesn’t matter whether I call it CPC or CCP as long as my communication is clear, and everyone knew exactly what I was referringn to.

[–] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Frankly, I think you are a liar and don't care what you have to say. "The Communist Party of China" is the official English-language title, and is in the format of the majority of communist parties worldwide.

Calling it the CCP is a transparent and pathetic attempt to demonstrate information control, to force your enemy to be referred to by the name you assign them. It is a method of racist dehumanization and a way for liberals to affirm to each other that they are not committing wrongthink by using the name officially sanctioned by their masters.

[–] Blake@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

If you think I’m a liar and you don’t care what I have to say then I have nothing more to say to you. But I have told the truth 100% of the time in all of my comments on this website. You can look into my history for all of the times where I have made errors or mistakes and apologised and admitted that I was wrong, and all of the times where people have asked me to prove my claims that they found unbelievable which I was able to prove.

I don’t have any proof of my relationship that I could share which isn’t extremely personal, so there’s no much I can do to prove my claim, but what I do have is a WeChat account. You cannot have a WeChat account in the west without getting a citizen of mainland China to vouch for you. I know it’s not much proof, but yeah, I’m not going to share photos of us together or our conversations or anything like that.