I'm sure muscle diminishes rapidly after MTF transition, but humans are just very good at losing muscle. Height and hand size are not things that go away after transition. Basketball is obviously one of the sports where MTF people have a massive advantage, although I don't know of any studies on it. It depends massively on the sport.

Of course in professional leagues everyone is genetically unique. Saying "no this particular genetically unique person is unfair" is a bit weird.

[–] iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When you start talking about height and hand size, I think you're getting lost in the sauce. Basketball already favors abnormally tall people anyway, but no one is trying to ban Yao Ming from the sport for being 229 cm (7'6").

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah. Pretty much all the transphobic arguments could apply to most top athletes.

"Yao Ming is stealing sports from natural, normal height men!"

"Michael Phelps has an unfair advantage because he has unnatural lungs and bone structure!"

"It's not fair to normal men that they have to compete against Mike Tyson. Would you want your son to have to fight against that?"

The reality is that the top athletes will always be physical outliers. That doesn't mean more average folks need to be excluded from sports nor that birth gender necessarily gives you an unfair advantage compared to the top athletes.

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

Beat me to the punch. This has been a settled issue for years, the only reason to hammer on about how trans people shouldn't be in sports is either prejudice or ignorance. And having a several comment exchange where sources are already cited kinda narrows that down

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have you seen Michael Phelp's hands. The man is an absolute genetic freak with multiple advantages, both in external build and internally (e.g. lactose buildup), there's no way anyone with average genetics can compete no matter how much they train.

And middle of the road athletes competing in the men's leagues don't become top athletes in the woman's league after transitioning, btw. They become middle of the road. Might there be some slight advantage? Dunno, not sure, might be, but it also doesn't matter because noone the fuck is willing to incur gender dysphoria to win a fucking title. Athletes are nuts but not that nuts.

[+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] darq@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

Except they haven't. There are a small handful of examples, that people both greatly exaggerate, and repeat over and over again. Trans people have been allowed to compete for many years prior, and have not overrun women's sports.

Simple math is that even being a small minority, trans people will, occasionally, win things. Even if there are zero competitive advantages to being a transgender woman, some trans women are gonna excel. Finding a handful of examples of trans people being good at sports isn't actually proof of advantage.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

200-yard freestyle race at the Ivy League women’s swimming

Is the type of race that can be totally dominated by up and coming Olympic athletes. Regional/institutional races tend to have quite low records until someone top-tier happens, by chance, to participate in them in the course of their career.

women's indoor 1,500 meter long distance running event for ages 50-54.

My sides. A senior event. At that age the only one you're competing against is yourself.

The Canadian Powerlifting Union announced a gender self-identification policy earlier this year that allowed athletes to participate in women’s competitions on the basis of self-declared gender alone.

Yeah that's bullshit there's a reason the rules set by all other organisations involve something along the lines of a minimum of two years on HRT. Noone at all anywhere is claming that the act of identifying as a woman, alone, reduces muscle mass.