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What counts as an attack for the purposes of the invisibility spell? (lemmy.ca)
submitted 2 days ago by PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca to c/dnd@lemmy.world
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I'm trying to figure out a ruling for something one of my players wants to do. They're invisible, but they took a couple of seemingly non-attack actions that my gut says should break inviz.

Specifically, they dumped out a flask of oil, and then used a tinderbox to light it on fire. Using a tinderbox isn't an attack, nor is emptying a flask, although they are actions , and the result of lighting something on fire both seems like an attack and something that would dispell inviz.

I know that as DM I can rule it however I want, but I'm fairly inexperienced and I don't wanna go nerfing one of my players tools just because it feels yucky to me personally without understanding the implications.

Is this an attack or is there another justification for breaking inviz that is there some RAW clause I didn't see? Or should this be allowed?

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It wasn't actually attacking an enemy, it was setting their weapon rack on fire so that they couldn't get to their ranged weapons.

Very clever, I like it!

But this familiar is becoming OP through rules lawyering. I don't wanna rain on my player's parade, but I'm not an experienced DM and it's becoming difficult to make encounters that can't just be circumvented by this damn familiar lol.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Add some environmental hazards and AoE attacks. Make the fires spread out of control and become a threat of their own. Tempt them with explosive barrels in dangerous places. Familiars die easily, but are cheap to resummon.

Keep attacking them frequently between rests. Make them reconsider that 1 hour familiar ritual and invisibility spell slot.

If even a single witness escapes, he's telling everyone what happened. Most spell casters can immediately put out the fire with Prestidigitation, Control Flames, or Druidcraft.

When they destroy items with fire, describe expensive things melting into worthless things.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Their familiar is an imp, so it gets invisibility as an action, so it doesn't cost them a spell slot or any spell uses. The familiar is basically always invisible and flying. I do need to pay more attention to how it's flying, though - it needs to be shape shifted into a raven, so polymorphing would break concentration, and raven flight isn't silent and cannot hover. Thanks for making me take a deeper look here. Edit: oh wait, imps can fly without shapeshifting

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Does that mean they took Pact of the Chain? If so, then it's a class feature that's supposed to be powerful. Maybe this signature trick makes their patron impressed, jealous, or bored...

They passed up on Pact of the Blade, so when they do get attacked, they're more vulnerable.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That is correct, and their imp is supposed to be quite powerful. But the resulting gameplay is kinda like stealth archer to the nth degree lol. I'm still trying figure out how to make it fun for both them while also giving the other players a fun experience and provide meaningful interesting challenges to the whole party

[–] Kitathalla@lemy.lol 2 points 16 hours ago

stealth archer to the nth degree

There are some good reads out there about invisibility in the fantasy worlds. I think one of the 3.5e splat books had an entire section dedicated to it (and I can't find it right now, super annoying). Most enemies, from the lowest tech bandit gang to a king's treasury, will have some idea about how to deal with it, because they live in a world where it happens, gets routine gossip on, and they've probably heard some strange creaks in the night (a tree branch, really) that they just know was an invisible demon creeping around when they were a vulnerable child...

It isn't really raining on your characters' parade to have the people in the world they live in expect things that go on in said world. Businesses and commonfolk alike have likely worried about everything from teleporting frog-polymorphing wizards to hell portals opening in their back room, and probably have some idea about what they think they would do.

Doors at night would have ceramic bowls stacked next to them, windows might have small screens or strings that need to be cut, any guard that is part of a decent organization will have resources stored somewhere to counter it (faerie fire or more 'out there' ideas like create water). I don't know about your edition, but 3.5e had specific checks that would tip off people that something is around. The sound of an imp's wings alone is going to be heard anywhere other than a raucous tavern (if you've ever heard a bird or bat flying by, imagine something 10x as heavy with leathery wings), because it isn't a superb owl, after all. Even mundane things would add up. Imagine the classic bell that rings when someone enters through a shop door. It was never intended to be an 'anti invisibility' thing, but it sure adds thematic drama to the affair.