this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
664 points (96.5% liked)
Privacy
32165 readers
134 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Damn you just won't let it go. I will still not agree with you however more you ramble on. You have not and will not convince me that a government will ever be more competent and efficient at solving these issues than alternatives. And, I repeat, it is not voluntary. If private property is not a right, what gives the government right to dictate my life because I happened to be born on this particular plot of land? And that is rhetorical, I would like to repeat:
None of these things you replied with have anything to do with the topic at hand, and I understand. It's easy to come up with some fancy catch-phrase and just hold to it in the face of rational thought. It's what governments do all the time.
This is a topic change and gishgallop. I have opinions on that topic, but why would I pivot to it with how bent out of shape you're getting over this one?
It is "not voluntary" only the same way contracts are "not voluntary" or work is "not voluntary". It's hard to get by without those things because the entire world disagrees with you on them. But it's possible.
They don't dictate your life. They dictate that a percent of the private property they amplify for you go back to them. If you choose not to take their protection on a piece of property, or use their infrastructure in any way, they can ask nothing of you. With very few exceptions, if you work any job or any land at all, you use government infrastructure in 100 different ways. It is perfectly legal in many countries (including the US) to live in the wilderness and sustain yourself on your own efforts. In such a case, you use no infrastructure and pay no taxes. Win/win. What you seem to want is all the entitlement you already have, but the government providing it to you free of charge. Good fucking luck.
It is not legal where I live, and I assure you that the tax agency where I live will hunt me to the edge of the world if I refuse to pay exactly what they demand.
We are just looping around the same arguments here, and do not move anywhere.
Let's try not talking about the binary situation of refusing a government or taxes altogether. I can agree that certain things can be handled by a state (although not in the most efficient way imo). There are still a shit ton of things that governements spend money on that I might not want. For example, where I live a significant portion of my obligatory tax goes to state run "public service", i.e. state run entertainment. And our process for public procurement is a mess, where things cost insane amounts of money, and most of the time don't even lead to any actual executed projects.
How are such things defensible with an obligatory tax design?
What I'm trying to say is that yes in a perfect world taxes are fine and dandy, and we get nice roads and healthcare, but in the reality that at least I live in it is just an expensive mess of things that I mostly don't want, but am forced to pay for.
Edit: a word
Does where you live also restrict emmigration? If so, you're not in a free country in the first place. It's 100% legal where I live.
So? Independent will is not the be-all end-all. If you want to kill people, you don't get to do that. Not paying taxes is not a victimless act, either. That's part of the societal agreement. You don't always get what you want. But you do get to do things that many people think you shouldn't get to do. As I mentioned "property is theft" to many people. And I reject their opinion the same as yours.
Are you a democracy? If you're a free country, at least some percent of society wants to use tax dollars to that. If you're not a in free country, well, taxes is a weird hill to die on.
Private sector inefficiency is pretty horrible in most of the world... and most of the world thinks it's ok to have private sector inefficiency (aka, profit margins). I tend to fight FOR regulated efficiency in both the private and public sectors... so you have my sympathy, just disagreement that it means taxation is actual theft.
I don't know where you live or the details, but it seems you agree taxation isn't theft :). But more importantly, I'm sorry to hear your government is wasteful (or that you think it is. Though I can't really guess where you're from, I find the most effective governments often have the most complaints of government waste).