I have seen many comments saying that lemmy.world sucks, and sh.itjust.works is good. I have seen that lemmy.world apparently has a very poor reputation among other instances. Why? After a quick look, sh.itjust.works doesn't look much different to me. Can anyone explain?

Edit: many good replies. the conclusion I'm drawing is that for my purposes it doesn't really matter. I appreciate everyone who responded

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[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

lemm.ee had a vote on threads. As to the short blocklist, it's a combination of a liberal federation policy and sunaurus apparently taking the time to clean it up once in a while, other instances have instances on their blocklist which are long defunct.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Yes and I hope I did not come across as negative about lemm.ee's policies - the "shocking" part to me is not having exploding heads (probably bc it's defunct, yet most instances keep it there just in case it were to ever decide to resurrect itself, or another in its place using that domain name), and other decisions that are "unusual" (for the largest instances at least) are to not include hexbear.net or even lemmygrad.ml.

And even given all of that, it still has preemptively defederated from threads.net, which makes it all the more extremely unusual that Lemmy.World has not. Even so, as I mentioned, I get it, for those reasons stated.

Tangentially, I wonder why more communities are not housed on lemm.ee. The largest is a movies community with only a few thousand subscribers, and already the next largest is down to a singular comic (albeit a popular one). The next largest instance, sh.itjust.works, has 6 communities larger than the biggest one on lemm.ee. I guess it's related to the whole centralization on Lemmy.World thing, but most instances slightly smaller have communities that are larger - lemmy.ca, feddit.org, lemmy.dbzer0.com, programming.dev, etc.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

hexbear avoided defederation by having admins who are more reasonable than (a not small chunk of) its users, lemmygrad is generally keeping to itself. It's certainly not because Sunaurus, an Estonian, would have a soft spot for Russian imperialism. We're also federated with beehaw, btw, as in they're not blocking us.

I don't know why we have so few communities, either. If we had more there very well might be more defederation drama going on because the more communities, the more chance for people to misbehave. movies is a quite harmless community in that regard, imagine !ukraine@sopuli.xyz while being federated with hexbear or lemmygrad.

I think lemm.ee is just... generic? It's a place where you can have an account and see practically the whole fediverse, attracting a lot of people who just want to participate, not found communities. feddit.org has the whole German community plus the canonical Europe one, lemmy.ca is Canadian, programming.dev is very very techy, dbzero anarchist+pirate.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 12 hours ago

Honestly I think the hexbear situation may need to be revisited based on recent observations where among other things an instance admin lied to another instance admin. Even lemmygrad.ml had this to say about it:

The last few days have honestly shaken my faith in Hexbear and their team and I hope the mods and admins at Lemmygrad are monitoring the situation closely.

Personally I want every single diversity of opinion to be able to be shared... so long as it is offered in good faith. Which HB is demonstrably not doing, even to admins of other instances. (That said, I don't always want to see it all of the time either - like porn, it would be good to be able to turn it off if I don't want it flooding my feed 100% of the time? Which after defederation, that is what I have bc you don't need an account just to lurk on content from an instance.) Ofc that's up to you all on lemm.ee to decide for yourselves, not us as outsiders, I was just offering my personal opinion since we were discussing it and it's good to be upfront with my biases:-).

I don't know as much about lemmygrad.ml tbh - that whole defederation issue predates me, although on StarTrek.website I did make the mistake of replying to a comment in a post that I found while browsing All that made me wish that I had never heard of the place. It might have been something along the lines of saying that at least Biden had lowered gasoline prices which helped poorer people and thereby that aided getting Democrats into the USA Senate during the midterms, and how while nowhere near enough it at least was a strategic move that wasn't "nothing"... but whatever I said, the response I got was EXACTLY like when I accidentally did the same to a comment in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net - I got an enormous FLOOD of responses filling up by Notifications for WEEKS and WEEKS afterwards. I did not feel like I fully consented to that level of vitriol and hate in return for what I intended as at least an attempt to better understand a complex situation.

Anyway if full defederation is the only way to prevent such content from showing up in every new person's feed, then so be it. Although I actually would rather have an opt-in system based on proper labeling than a "hard defederate", it's just that such is not made available to us by the developers of the codebase (although PieFed has it, yet the flagship instance PieFed.social has defederated from those two instances already). So since the only options allowed are full defederation vs. help spread all of their content without offering any warning to new users, and not only content but their echo chamber fueled hatred and vitriol towards any opinion that is less extreme than theirs... then defederation it is that seems the best course of action moving forwards, imho.

And perhaps that is what keeps people from putting communities onto lemmy.ee? Knowing full well that the hexbears and lemmygrads will be able to brigade it? If so, it's fine for lemm.ee to remain as a general instance - again it's up to you all who are on it to decide what you want for yourselves - I was just curious to think about the potential reasons why. Also I think it's great to have at least one instance in the Fediverse that is that way, and it would be a loss if it were to change. Then again, hexbear admins lying to admins of another instance... at that point the argument put forth that at least the admins were better behaved than the average user seems no longer true, and that the instance might not be trustworthy any longer in the future? Reaching out in full friendliness is awesome! But not in the face of such bad faith behaviors in return.

I agree on the rest - about people wanting to be more consumers and less contributers, in large part (from what I hear) due to the current state of the moderation tools that apparently are quite poor, and all the more so across different instances, which in lemm.ee's case would be exaggerated since to keep up the standards of a community the mod would have to remove content from hexbears.