this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
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I genuinely do not know who the bad guys are. S lot of my leftist friends are against Israel, but from what I know Israel was attacked and is responding and trying to get their hostages back.

Enlighten me. Am I wrong? Why am I wrong?

And dumb it down for me, because apparently I'm an idiot.

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[โ€“] Zagorath@aussie.zone 50 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I just want to briefly make one point because I think most of the important points have been very well covered by others already.

What's terrorism and what's freedom fighters is determined by history. By the same standards that Hamas are being called terrorists, you could easily make an argument that 1910s Irish republicans, black South Africans under apartheid, and British suffragettes (not to be confused with suffragists) could easily be considered terrorists. Innocent civilians were killed by all these groups, but looking back on it today we almost universally say they were in the right, because they were fighting for their groups to receive rights denied to them by the ruling class. Their methods weren't always as perfectly clean as we might ideally want, but the primary target was always someone oppressing them in some way. And right now and for the last half century+, Israel have been oppressing the Palestinian people.

[โ€“] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

1910s Irish republicans,

Wait really? I thought terrorism was more of a Troubles tactic.

[โ€“] Zagorath@aussie.zone 15 points 3 weeks ago

I actually deliberately avoided mentioning the Troubles because I wanted to bring up cases where everyone today could fairly uniformly agree that we were discussing freedom fighters more than terrorists. Too many today would still say that the Provisional IRA were the bad guys (or at the very least that they were "as bad as" the other side). But the point I wanted to make was how given enough time, even terroristic actions can end up being viewed on the whole as coming from the "good guys", if their cause is viewed as just.

I could also have mentioned American revolutionaries.

[โ€“] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

Blowing up money changers offices is terrorrism?