this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
18 points (95.0% liked)

Technology

59601 readers
2940 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Those claiming AI training on copyrighted works is "theft" misunderstand key aspects of copyright law and AI technology. Copyright protects specific expressions of ideas, not the ideas themselves. When AI systems ingest copyrighted works, they're extracting general patterns and concepts - the "Bob Dylan-ness" or "Hemingway-ness" - not copying specific text or images.

This process is akin to how humans learn by reading widely and absorbing styles and techniques, rather than memorizing and reproducing exact passages. The AI discards the original text, keeping only abstract representations in "vector space". When generating new content, the AI isn't recreating copyrighted works, but producing new expressions inspired by the concepts it's learned.

This is fundamentally different from copying a book or song. It's more like the long-standing artistic tradition of being influenced by others' work. The law has always recognized that ideas themselves can't be owned - only particular expressions of them.

Moreover, there's precedent for this kind of use being considered "transformative" and thus fair use. The Google Books project, which scanned millions of books to create a searchable index, was ruled legal despite protests from authors and publishers. AI training is arguably even more transformative.

While it's understandable that creators feel uneasy about this new technology, labeling it "theft" is both legally and technically inaccurate. We may need new ways to support and compensate creators in the AI age, but that doesn't make the current use of copyrighted works for AI training illegal or unethical.

For those interested, this argument is nicely laid out by Damien Riehl in FLOSS Weekly episode 744. https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/744

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ManixT@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You tell me, was it people suing companies or companies suing people?

Is a company claiming it should be able to have free access to content or a person?

[–] riskable@programming.dev 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just a point of clarification: Copyright is about the right of distribution. So yes, a company can just "download the Internet", store it, and do whatever TF they want with it as long as they don't distribute it.

That the key: Distribution. That's why no one gets sued for downloading. They only ever get sued for uploading. Furthermore, the damages (if found guilty) are based on the number of copies that get distributed. It's because copyright law hasn't been updated in decades and 99% of it predates computers (especially all the important case law).

What these lawsuits against OpenAI are claiming is that OpenAI is making a derivative work of the authors/owners works. Which is kinda what's going on but also not really. Let's say that someone asks ChatGPT to write a few paragraphs of something in the style of Stephen King... His "style" isn't even cooyrightable so as long as it didn't copy his works word-for-word is it even a derivative? No one knows. It's never been litigated before.

My guess: No. It's not going to count as a derivative work. Because it's no different than a human reading all his books and performing the same, perfectly legal function.

[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It's more about copying, really.

That’s why no one gets sued for downloading.

People do get sued in some countries. EG Germany. I think they stopped in the US because of the bad publicity.

What these lawsuits against OpenAI are claiming is that OpenAI is making a derivative work of the authors/owners works.

That theory is just crazy. I think it's already been thrown out of all these suits.