Yeah, no. Russia is fighting NATO expansion. The head of NATO said so. The people of Russia know what Western economic shock therapy did to them and they have a learned distrust of the West. They do not want yet another European military invading them over the Ukraine border like the last 2 European armies did.

Ukraine, on the other hand, had a movement for alignment with the West that was cultivated, stoked, and supported by the USA to the degree that John McCain and Victoria Nuland were literally on the ground during the Maidan protests. Nuland is on tape discussing the replacement of the elected leader of Ukraine. And then the minority Right Sector faction stormed the capital with guns drawn and forced the sitting government to flee for its life. The replacement government simped for the EU and USA because it meant the USA would allow them to kill the ethnic Russians within their territory and also enrich their political elite. So for 8 years the neonazis, tied to the NATO leave-behind militias of Nazi supporters created under NATO'S Operation Gladio, bombed and murdered ethnic Russians inside Ukraine's border.

And when the move towards NATO expansion was too close for comfort, Russia acted to prevent that expansion.

This has nothing to do with expanding Russia. The CIA has said so. The NYT has reported so. NaATO has stated so. Within Russia, there is no material possibility, no military strategy, and no political desire to take and hold Ukraine.

[+] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org -11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

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[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Believe what you need to believe. I was just communicating.

[+] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org -11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Dawg, it is 2024... Your talking points are from start of the war. They didn't make sense then and they fell a part now.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

History isn't subject to popularity. You'll note that the revelations about the CIA's assessment are from this year, though the assessment was from the beginning of the SMO. You'll also note that Russia still has not made any attempt to actually march across Ukraine and take it despite Ukraine's losses being so steep that the average age of their military went up 20 years.

You could point out WHY my talking points fall apart now, but you won't because history hasn't changed much. Nuland was still there at Maidan square and the tape of her planning the next leader of Ukraine still exists. McCain still stood on stage with Right Sector and said it was a proud day for democracy less than 24 hours before Right Sector stormed the capital violently and forced the sitting president and his cabinet to flee the country. Operation Gladio is still on the books. The Banderite leave-behind still killed a lot of Jews. The neonazis in Ukraine are still getting training and arms from the USA.

Not much has changed, honestly.