this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
125 points (83.8% liked)

Asklemmy

43947 readers
671 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I've been seeing more often (and others have posted the same) that some of the elements of "Reddit etiquette" seem to be taking over here. Luckily I can still find discussion comments but it seems the jokes and general "downvote because I disagree" are slowly taking over.

So the question becomes is it the size or the functionality of the site? The people or popularity? What's your thoughts?

edit: should I change it to Lemmy-hivemind? Exhibit A: the amount of downvotes without a single explanation (guessing it's anything to do with Reddit being talked about).

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Imo, it likely was/is due to the voting system โ€” and, in a similar sense, awards. Redditors want to increase their Karma scores and seem to, at least subconsciously, view it as clout. So, they'll create posts with the intent of farming these points โ€” ie they post things that they know will get a specific response from the masses. What also doesn't help, and is something that Lemmy similarly suffers from, is that there generally is no established consensus on how votes should be used. An upvote could mean agreement, or that a post is funny, or that it's good quality, or that it's on topic for a community, etc. A downvote could mean that the person disagrees with the post, or that they think that it isn't relevant or they simply don't like the OP. In reality, all that votes do, at the fundamental level, is tell the algorithm where it should place posts (a personalized recommendation algorithm changes this a bit, but the effect is essentially the same) โ€” a post with a large upvote to downvote to ratio gets shown higher up and, by extension, more than one with a smaller ratio. This creates a sort of feedback loop where the posts that get farmed for upvotes get shown more. People don't want their post to be buried, so they'll only post what they think will get upvotes. And since upvotes are usually used for things that illicit an "agreement" response, only posts that people agree with will be shown.

The solution to these issues, imo, is to create an obvious standard for how votes are used and change how they're interpreted by the algorithm. Imo, Facebook was on the right track with how they were using emojis as the voting method. People generally react to posts with emotion, and an emoji is a good representation of that. You could potentially still have an up/down form of vote (alongside the emotional voting options), but it would be standardized to only be used as a metric for relevance/importance/correctness. This could be enforced by moderation, if votes were publicly viewable, by allowing moderators to remove people that are vote brigading (not including emotional votes). Emotional votes probably shouldn't be considered by the algorithm so that emotional bias can be avoided. Or, at the very least, there should be different algorithms that take these voting types into account I'm different ways (eg if you only want funny posts, you could sort to primarily get posts with a laughing reaction). In addition to this, also removing the gamification aspect (not showing (at least not publicly) total scores on profiles).

[โ€“] 13esq@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

You're right. Votes need to be used to encourage debate and not used to discourage wrong think.

Down votes should only be used for off topic/hateful/bad faith arguments etc and not just used because "I disagree".

I know that realistically, that's never going to happen but it would help!

[โ€“] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Lemmy has the same deficient content sorting system. Just +1 or -1, no amplitude, no tagging just dumb total score plus hidden moderation interference shaping the discussion from the shadows.

[โ€“] LarkinDePark@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm disappointed in Lemmy's lack of experimentation or innovation here.

Yes, they are largely stuck in the toxic reddit mindset.

[โ€“] makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The power triping mods. They made their way here. Twas indeed sad.

It's mod revolt that was lemmy's first big push. Unfortunately this means they are the major force shaping Lemmy in their image. They want unchanged reddit except they want their fiefdom secured and that's all we're getting. Lemmy is not the last stop in the slashdot->digg->reddit->Lemmy exodus. I just hope we're not stuck here another whole decade again.