this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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[–] takeda@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, genius thought that creating CyberTruk and turn full Nazi will expand his consumer base.

Sucks for real founders of Tesla, but hey, at least you helped bootstrapping switch to EVs.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (19 children)

turn full Nazi

He's a Nazi? Like, literally? What's the latest?

[–] Wanderer@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Thus website doesn't like any opinion that is anyway different to theirs. They want the echo chamber.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I am wondering why there is such a down vote count on this. I thought there was a new development that he's actually a Nazi supporter, rather than just letting them roam free on his platform.

It's not even an opinion. I'm literally curious to know more facts lol.

[–] Wanderer@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

This website fucking insane in all honesty.

Like I'm not going to say Elon is perfect. But on here they live in fantasy land. He seems to be living rent free in their head.

Space X is the biggest one where it becomes obvious how biased it is. Space X will public announced that they are testing something and expect it to fail. Then it does better than expected but doesn't complete everything perfectly. Then everyone on here acts like the greatest space company in the world is failing singlehandedly because Elon is stupid and also an evil genius. Also that he has too much control and that is had too little.

Facts don't matter here. Everyone is too fragile so free speech is scary to them.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Nope. Lefties like to call any outspoken conservative a "Nazi" to discredit them. It's like when conservatives call lefties "communist." It's juvenile IMO, but I guess it works.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

If you let Nazis in your house and kick out people saying they don't want to hang around Nazis, what does that make you?

If you're looking to have a public forum, you need a representative sample from all sides of the political spectrum. Look at parliamentary systems as an example of that, where you have literal fascists and communists sitting alongside one another as a very vocal, but incredibly small minority. If that's your goal, you need to take the good with the bad.

That is what Musk has stated as his goal, so what you're seeing makes absolute sense with that stated goal.

That said, I don't like Musk or what he claims to believe in politically, I just think the idea of an open town square is desirable. I hope someone can pull it off (doesn't seem like Musk is doing it), which is part of why I'm working on a Reddit/Lemmy alternative that discourages echo chambers and encourages high quality discourse. Doing that is incredibly hard, because people like to group up into tribes, and I think Musk absolutely does that as well (hence why I don't like him). However, I don't think Musk is a "Nazi" because he allows Nazis on his platform, I think he's just incapable of running the type of social media platform he wants to see exist.

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What are you talking about? Who has he kicked out for that?

[–] mephiska@kbin.run 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Verified pro-Nazi X accounts flourish under Elon Musk https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/x-twitter-elon-musk-nazi-extremist-white-nationalist-accounts-rcna145020

IBM pulls advertising from X/Twitter after report says they appeared next to pro-Hitler and pro-Nazi content https://fortune.com/2023/11/17/ibm-pulls-advertising-from-x-twitter-antisemitism-elon-musk-nazi-hitler/

Elon Musk Will Reinstate Neo-Nazi on Twitter https://lamag.com/internet/elon-musk-will-reinstate-neo-nazi-on-twitter

Elon Musk expresses support for antisemitic post on X, calling it "the actual truth" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-antisemitic-comments-x-post-actual-truth/

Elon Musk Is Turning Twitter Into a Haven for Nazis https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zm9q/elon-musk-twitter-nazis-white-supremacy

[–] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago

None of this addresses my question

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It certainly seems that way. I think social media has made people turn on eachother. Everything is dumbed down. Sides are calling eachother names. Its all so useless.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yup, and that's more than a feeling, there's a lot of evidence for it. Here's a PDF research paper about polarization in social media, here's an article, and here's a related poll of people in emerging markets.

Then again, politics has always been divisive and resorting to name-calling isn't anything new. The research, however, seems to indicate that it has gotten much worse with social media.

[–] 1984@lemmy.today 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, it's obvious even without any research papers, at least to me who grew up before social media. It has changed and weaponized people against eachother. People assume the worst about people just from reading a comment.

Funny actually.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Exactly!

And it's kind of ironic, it's closer to "anti-social media" than "social media." It works to bring together small groups (e.g. book groups), but anything of any real scale and it breaks down into us vs them mentality.

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[–] GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Leftists are communist though. Liberals are the progressives that prefer capitalism

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

No, I disagree with each of your definitions. Here's how I see them:

  • leftist - anyone left of center; this is a big tent with both capitalists and communists
  • progressives - leftists who want significant, but moderate political change (e.g. universal healthcare, high minimum wage, etc)
  • liberals - anyone who believes in individual rights and private property, so basically the capitalist wing of leftist ideology; originally, liberals were more synonymous w/ modern libertarians, but now they tend to prefer larger government

So in terms of size of the groups: leftists > liberals > progressives. The communist part of the left is largely mutually exclusive from progressives and liberals, though some progressives are in favor of some elements from socialism.

At least that's how I see it. I'm neither leftist or conservative, I'm a pretty centrist libertarian. I'm left of many leftists and right of many conservatives, depending on the issue.

[–] GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You may disagree, but it is a pretty widely agreed upon distinction. It's a symptom of the issue of a fractured left wing. The left leaning communists wanted to distinguish themselves from the left leaning capitalists, so they started calling themselves leftists and not liberals.

It's just a bunch of different labels, it's not really set in stone or definitive. I totally understand why you disagree.

My point really was just that a conservative calling someone a communist isn't insulting to a lot of self described leftists because they are communist, it's mostly just considered an insult to a conservative. Kinda like calling an alt right person a Nazi is an insult from a leftist, but plenty of alt righties wouldn't be insulted because they are (jk but not really but jk)

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The left leaning communists wanted to distinguish themselves from the left leaning capitalists, so they started calling themselves leftists and not liberals.

I don't really care what they call themselves, I care what people in general mean by the terms they use. Academics use "leftist" to mean anyone on the left, "liberals" to mean those who prioritize individual liberties and private property (e.g. founders of the US), and "progressives" to mean those interested in utilitarian changes to existing systems to improve outcomes. "Liberal" has change a bit recently with the right using it to describe the left, but it's also not wrong because both Dems and Reps are liberals, Reps are just socially conservative liberals, and Dems are socially progressive liberals. Those have clear definitions that are generally understood by the public, and changing their meaning just confuses things IMO.

My point really was just that a conservative calling someone a communist isn’t insulting to a lot of self described leftists because they are communist

But most aren't. Calling Biden a communist because he wants to expand access to medical care is similar to calling Trump a fascist because he wants stronger border protections. They're just inflammatory, inaccurate labels used for political gain. The communist label is relying on the "red scare" nonsense, and the fascist label is relying on holocaust imagery. Both are inaccurate and harmful IMO.

Yes, there are legitimate communists on the left and legitimate fascists on the right, but they're such a minority that using them for any public figure is almost guaranteed to be inaccurate.

[–] jlou@mastodon.social 0 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Liberalism is not necessarily capitalist. It is possible to be an anti-capitalist liberal by recognizing the inalienable right to workplace democracy @technology

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[–] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Really? Because the right doesn't throw the Nazi card around like there's no tomorrow at the left with their disingenuous "national socialism bullshit". Only one party/political leaning is actually courting the neo-nazi vote.

Of course they don't, the Nazi card is a far-right concept. The far-left analog is communist, and they did plenty of that during the "red scare." They still use "communist" or "socialist" terminology to write off opponents.

And no, the Republican party isn't actively courting neo-nazis, it's neo-nazis that are using Republican talking points to appeal to a broader audience. There's certainly a venn diagram overlap there, so Republicans can appear to be supporting neo-nazis, but that's really just neo-nazis trying to appeal to more of the mainstream.

Don't get caught up in the partisan name-calling, it sucks when Republican do it, and it sucks when Democrats do it, it's just a really stupid version of a strawman. Democrats don't want to seize the means of product but Republicans want you to think they do, and Repbulicans don't want to kill minorities but Democrats want you to think they do. Don't buy in to the divisiveness BS, look at the facts and make your own decisions from there.

I personally hate both parties since neither actually deliver on the parts I like from their platforms, and they tend to behave similarly on the issues I care about (e.g. both largely support Israel, both seem happy to continue undeclared wars, both seem happy to run up deficit spending with little to show for it, etc). Screw the two party system and "pundits" in general.

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[–] cordlesslamp@lemmy.today 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

seriously, I think if Elon could just sit back and shut the fuck up about everything since the beginning, he could have went down in history as one of the greatest man alive.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Apartheid Space Karen just had to go and call the Thai cave diver a pedo because his tech bro submarine idea was dumb as fuck, and his fragile ego couldn't handle the L.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I wondered if that was the trigger or just a symptom. I suspect, given his upbringing and previous reputation from other startups, it was just a symptom.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 7 months ago

Definitely. But it was the moment where a LOT of people started seeing the real elon

[–] GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 7 months ago

Oh, billionaires and their submarines. I wish Elon wanted to tour the Titanic.