[Outdated, please look at pinned post] Casual Conversation

I dunno, from both having worked in a few food service jobs and as a customer, I think it's a bad idea.

Any fast food joint, the trash cans are in the seating area. I promise you that people are idiots and will screw things up, even in nice restaurants. You have no idea how careless people are, even when they're otherwise very nice and respectful. And you have accidents, which the customer isn't equipped to handle. Many a time back in those days, the front staff would end up doing more work cleaning up problems from people honestly trying to get their refuse in the right place than they would have if they'd had to clean the tables themselves.

At a regular restaurant? You've got plates, cups, silverware, and all of that has some degree of food waste on/in it. The nicer the place, the nicer those things are. Can you see how much chaos and expense there would be in each table of customers trying to carry their stuff to a drop off for the items, and get rid of trash/food waste? Nah, having staff do it is less expensive, better organized, and less likely to cause lawsuits.

Besides, cleaning isn't degrading. It's just a job. Doesn't matter if you're cleaning at a restaurant, a home, or someone's ass (hello fellow nurse's assistants!), you're doing a good thing that harms no-one, and helps someone. That can never be degrading. A given employer may be degrading, but that's a different thing. You can run into jerk customers that try to make it degrading, but the work itself is just life.

The point of going out to eat is everyone does stuff for you. If people had to do non-relaxation-related work at a restaurant, they probably wouldn't see the appeal.

Lol. No.

And in many places in the world the service is expected to be even better. You wouldn't be carrying anything or cleaning anything and that's just normal behaviour that does NOT deserve or get a tip from anyone.

Constantly pushing worse service and higher prices at the same time is such a scam that Westerners are falling into.

What you're describing does exist. There are plenty of restaurants with a cafeteria style dining area and no wait staff. The difference is that these places tend to be a lot cheaper than a proper restaurant with wait staff.

People do "degrading" work all the time and at a much larger scale than this. I think a more important part is to get everyone on board with not degrading people because we're all just paying each other for things we don't want to or can't do anyway. A coder wouldn't expect a client to clean up old comments in source code because that's an expected part of the job.

I do think we should also be considerate to each other though and not leave a total mess for someone to clean up. If someone at the table is getting judgy about you cleaning your space they're probably entitled. If staff asks you to stop though keep in mind they may have a specific way they clean tables and they don't want you disrupting that flow (this is especially true for stacking dishes or piling things like silverware and napkins on something).

I think the idea is eating out is a break from all the chores associated with cooking and cleaning up.

You're literally paying for someone else to take care of those parts so you can just enjoy a meal.

If the prices were noticeably cheaper maybe.

1. People are paying money, they don't want that extra hassle because otherwise, they'd just eat at home.

2. The cafeteria at my work is like this. I don't mind at all, however, I only go when the meals are free so that's definitely a factor. If I was paying, I wouldn't bother going.

I can cook and clean at home. I'm not giving people money to make me do work.

If I am at a restaurant, I am either extremely tired or celebrating something. If I'm tired, I don't want to get up or do anything. If I'm celebrating Grandma's 88th birthday with her kids and their spouses all 60-75, I don't want any of THEM to have to clean plates while trying to navigate their walkers with their shaking hands and aching backs. It is enough that they made it to the restaurant. Don't make them work. Also, I want to be with them, but if we had the crew to clean up after the whole family, we would have stayed home. We paid the restaurant so we'd have less work to do.

You're obviously trying to be thoughtful, and to a certain extent this is entirely subjective. If you, as any decent person would, think there are lines that you do not cross and that you treat service professionals with respect, then where is the line? You definitely don't throw shit on the floor intentionally, but you also don't offer to help cook, which you might at a family dinner. Every non-shitty person person will land somewhere in between, though hopefully a good ways away from throwing shit on the floor.

I think you're just running into a situation where your line is in a different place than other folks', to the point where you're a little out of step with the level of "help with the chores" that most people expect at a sit-down restaurant. If you continue to treat staff with respect, thank them for their help, and (if culturally appropriate/economically necessary) tip generously, then you don't have to feel bad. My wife waited tables and tended bar for many years, and it's not the specific tasks that are part of the job that ever made it feel degrading, it was people treating her shabbily and acting superior. No one expects you to clear the table when you're out; just don't act like you're too good to.

When I was a student I used to eat at a charity that made you do that at the end of the meal, it was fine. You just scraped the plate over a bin then gave the plate a scrub in soapy water. They took it away to put in the machine.

It's not really degrading to clean, though. It's good honest work and it needs to be done.

If the food costs less if I cleaned my own plates and cutlery, then maybe sure. I don't think cleaning plates is degrading considering everyone does it at home anyway. Restaurants are providing service along with the food, and that includes the freedom to enjoy your meal without needing to clean up after.

Depending on the country different service is expected and contractually agreed on (even non-verbal) by both parties.
Of course you can lower that service level, but without compensating the cuetomer, you probably wont have many customers anymore.. as thats kinda the whole point of going to a restaurant in the firist place, not having to do these chores.
In many jobs there are parts which maybe are not to your liking.. imaginge having to cleanup after yourself in a hotel.. just so the cleaners dont have to change your sheets and touch your towels? Not much service left then.. so it better be cheaper.

In mine site messes in Australia you empty your plate into a bin and stack it in the industrial clean racks.

I wouldn't trust that you clean your plate well enough that i would eat off of it again. (Not necessarily you, but the general population)

Just to add an other aspect, I don't want to have to deal with dirty plates because the guy before me was lazy.

The dishpit is also a lot more efficient.

Cook at home and you can wash all of the dishes you want. The food quality might be better too.

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From a health and hygiene aspect, no thanks.

Who wants to sit near the smelly bin of food scraps, or have people scrap it all over the floor because they're incapable of basic things.